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Author Topic:   Truth of resurrection and death of the apostles (for Willowtree)
ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6268 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 40 of 92 (72044)
12-10-2003 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by keith63
12-09-2003 11:52 AM


Actually the women were the eye witnesses, not the writers.
No, the women were characters in in variants of a story.
The writers were retelling the story they heard from the women and then recounting their own experiences.
Really? Where in the Synoptics did you read of these conversations? Or did you simply make it up?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by keith63, posted 12-09-2003 11:52 AM keith63 has replied

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ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6268 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 65 of 92 (92392)
03-14-2004 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Tokyojim
12-26-2003 10:25 AM


Re: All religions have martyrs - so what?! Here's the difference:
They gained nothing by going throughout the world on difficult, tiring, and dangerous missionary journies to spread lies. All they got for their hard work was a bit of persecution. That alone is still strong evidence.
Is this not equally strong evidence for the numerous Gnostic and Jewish sects purged by the victors of early Christian sectarian conflict?
Is it not even stronger evidence for Judaism, repeatedly villified and viciously attacked by state sponsored Christianity?
Certainly Islamic martyrdom should be counted as "strong evidence".
And what of Maghi (Mela Muktsar) and Guru Arjan Dev Ji, exemplars of Sikh martyrdom? Is this not likewise "strong evidence"?
And surely there exists no finer meld of inspiring miracle and martyrdom than the Martyrdom of the Bb. How do we weigh this "strong evidence" of the Baha`i faith?
Martyrdom is the province of sociology and psychology. Religious martyrdom is simply one manifestation of the incessant and pervasive willingness of untold numbers to die for a cause. The martyrdom of Polycarp no more validates Christanity than does the martyrdom of Al Qaeda pilots validate Islam.

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 Message 63 by Tokyojim, posted 12-26-2003 10:25 AM Tokyojim has not replied

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 Message 66 by keith63, posted 03-14-2004 8:45 PM ConsequentAtheist has replied

ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6268 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 67 of 92 (92493)
03-14-2004 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by keith63
03-14-2004 8:45 PM


Re: All religions have martyrs - so what?! Here's the difference:
There is a big difference in the martyrdom of the disciples and all these other martyrs. In short the disciples were eye witnesses and to a man died for something they were in a unique position to know about.
The "big difference" is that you believe legends for which there is no evidence, no substantiation. Nothing more.

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 Message 66 by keith63, posted 03-14-2004 8:45 PM keith63 has replied

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 Message 69 by keith63, posted 03-15-2004 10:07 AM ConsequentAtheist has replied

ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6268 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 74 of 92 (92632)
03-15-2004 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by keith63
03-15-2004 10:07 AM


Re: All religions have martyrs - so what?! Here's the difference:
If you read the post on #43 I included all the places in the Bible which corroberate their stories.
That's a bit like pointing to all the places in The Wizard of Oz that corroborates the Wicked Witch of the West. Rather than another laundry list, why not submit for discussion the single piece of evidence that you find most probative?
I also believe that history shows the disciples started the early church so I would not place these stories in the realm of legends with no evidence.
What history, specifically?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by keith63, posted 03-15-2004 10:07 AM keith63 has not replied

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