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Author Topic:   Paul of Tarsus - the first Christian?
Percy
Member
Posts: 22509
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 156 of 219 (303503)
04-12-2006 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by truthlover
04-12-2006 7:26 AM


Re: Why believe in Paul's word ?
truthlover writes:
To Paul, we are punished for our own sin, not Adam's.
Even if true, isn't it a minor distinction? Romans 5:12 tells us:
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.
Had Adam not sinned then all men that followed would not have sinned, and there would be no death. While it might be true that they're being punished for their own sin and not Adam's, it is Adam's original sin that caused them to commit the sins they're being punished for.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by truthlover, posted 04-12-2006 7:26 AM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by jar, posted 04-12-2006 11:39 AM Percy has replied
 Message 161 by truthlover, posted 04-12-2006 4:13 PM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22509
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 158 of 219 (303542)
04-12-2006 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by jar
04-12-2006 11:39 AM


Re: Why believe in Paul's word ?
jar writes:
If you go on to read past that line, what you see is that Paul was using that line, a reference to a story many would have heard, as a lead in to saying that all that is now past. He goes on to say that GOD has sent Jesus to remind us that all is forgiven, that we don't have to worry about that anymore.
Before Adam's sin there was no death, and afterwards there was. Even after Jesus died for our sins there was still death. Paul is explaining that Jesus's sacrifice provides the opportunity for eternal salvation after death, not that death, the responsibility for which must be laid at the feet of Adam, is rescinded. Jesus brings forgiveness for sins and eternal salvation, not the end of original sin and death.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by jar, posted 04-12-2006 11:39 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by jar, posted 04-12-2006 1:06 PM Percy has replied
 Message 162 by truthlover, posted 04-12-2006 4:21 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22509
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 160 of 219 (303556)
04-12-2006 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by jar
04-12-2006 1:06 PM


Re: Paul and the concept of Original Sin.
Percy writes:
And I don't believe the Bible supports the idea that before Adam there was no death.
Oh, okay. We probably don't agree enough on anything to have a conversation about this.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by jar, posted 04-12-2006 1:06 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by lfen, posted 04-13-2006 1:57 PM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22509
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 163 of 219 (303836)
04-13-2006 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by truthlover
04-12-2006 4:21 PM


Re: Why believe in Paul's word ?
I didn't want to leave you hanging, so I just stopped by to let you know that I've read and understood your posts, but I couldn't think of any response that would be on-topic. I don't want to draw the thread off-topic, but I don't want to be mysterious, either, so I'll just say that I can't figure out how to respond to claims of the correctness of any particular Biblical interpretation, not just yours, but Jar's, too. It seems Talmudic, meaning in this case a process that by infinite dissection can yield any particular conclusion you like.
Maybe I'm just not suited for discussions involving Biblical exegesis. I'll creep back to my corner in the science forums.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by truthlover, posted 04-12-2006 4:21 PM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by truthlover, posted 04-13-2006 11:23 AM Percy has not replied

  
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