Chemical Evolution

Of course we can. Fine Tuning is 100% dependent on point of view.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

It is.There is no fine tuning of the universe. It simply does not exist. We are the product of what is. The Universe is not designed for us, we are a product of how the universe "is". If it were different, we would be different.As not just a Theist, but a Christian, honesty demands acceptance of that fact.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Why?

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Tuning SU Carbs and working with Lucas Electrics.Edited by jar, : +s

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Really? Did you notice that this is a debate board? What I believe is unrelated to the question I had asked.You said: I asked a simple question about your assertion.Why?AbE: you might also want to note that Mr. Hambre posted that message on 07-26-2004 at 04:28 PM.Edited by jar, : No reason given.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Well, in a word, no. Tuning does not imply creating. And other than showing that you did not read what I wrote, what is your point?What I said was that we are the product of the Universe. It is not the Universe that is finely tuned for us, but rather that we are just barely adequately tuned to live in it. And the tuning even there is not very good. Almost all critters that have even existed went extinct.We can even see just how that minimal tuning is done. Really? Why not?

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

That has NOTHING to do with creating. It is not creating a piano, creating a vehicle or creating whatever.The Universe is not finely tuned for us. We are barely adequately tuned to survive in it. Look around at life and what you find is that it is just barely good enough to survive. As I said, almost all species that ever lived in what you seem to think is a finely tuned universe died out. They went extinct. Daid. Gonner. No longer around.In addition you said: And I asked, why not? Why is it unnatural for us to try to tune our immediate environment? What possible reason might there be for us NOT to try to tune our environment?

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I can say that the tuning is not very good because, as I have said several times to you now, almost every species that ever lived died off, went extinct. That's no judgment, it is called fact.Life, life that we have found so far, all life that we know of in the past, is not finely tuned to the finely tuned universe you claim exists. It is just good enough.That is Evolution. It is the history of them critters that lived just long enough to reproduce. The design of the critters is not fine, hell it is not even good, it is just barely good enough to get by. No more than that, And even then, when the conditions in this finely tuned universe you imagine change, the critters are usually found to be NOT good enough to get by.Edited by jar, : No reason given.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Sorry but I don't see anything relevant in that bunch of words, just a very silly attempt to toss in totally irrelevant nonsense.Since you are new here, let me try to point out some of the procedures here at EvC.First you are in a thread on the subject of Chemical Evolution in the Forum Origin of Life that is one of the Science Forums.Things like "Corporate greed? Religious fanatacism? Kids walking into school with guns and killing fellow students?" have no bearing on the subject. Further more your whole argument is fallacious not just from a science perspective but from a theological (which carries no weight on the science side anyway) position as well.In addition you continue to misstate what I have said. I am politely asking you to stop it.I will try again to explain what I have said.The Universe is NOT finely tuned for us. If you have evidence that it is otherwise then present it, please. The evidence that it is not tuned is that almost all of the known universe is inhospitable for us. We simply can't live there unless WE modify the local environment from what it is, to something WE have tuned for our own needs.Critters are not finely tuned either, rather they are just barely good enough to get by. The evidence for the above statement is that almost every species that ever lived has gone extinct. That is not just dying, anything born will die. But as species, we are so poorly tuned for the universe that we inhabit that even relatively minor changes have led to whole species going extinct.The rest of your post gets into the issues of societies. Granted that is interesting but it also has nothing to do with the subject. If you like, propose a thread and we can look at that.But you continue also to make wild unsupported and illogical assertions and to refuse to answer the questions asked of you.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

While you are taking a breather, here is something to think about.When you return, don't try pitching absolute nonsense like "God is Love and Loves everyone what are you affraid of? are you sick?"It simply won't fly here for a couple reasons.First, many of us here are very devout Theists, many like myself devout Christians, and we know that the idea there is some conflict between Evolution or Abiogenesis or 15+ billion year old universe has NOTHING to do with either GOD or Christianity and is simply something taught by ignorant Pastors.All science tells us is "How God Did It", and science does that with far greater honesty and far more truth than you will get from many Christian Pastors.You are not debating folk here that are only Atheists or Agnostics, you will have to present an argument that will pass muster with the Christians here at EvC who KNOW that Evolution is FACT, and that the Theory of Evolution is the best explanation so far on how that happened.Try to prepare an argument that will stand up when examined by the devout Christians here who also accept evolution. If you cannot convince even fellow Christians, you will certainly fail when debating Atheists and Agnostics.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion