Genesis 1:1-3

Most who've read much of me are aware that I am not a YEC based on my understanding of these first verses of Genesis. Genesis 1:1 simply states that when the heavens and the earth were created, God created them. Only when God began to work on the void planet did day one begin. So my position on the creation verses of Genesis one is that nobody knows the age of the earth for sure. Likely it is relatively old. This, imo, is where my fellow Biblical creationist YECs get themselves in trouble.This is not the only problem YECs have here. Most also believe the heavens in verse on include the whole universe and that not only the earth, but the whole universe is very young; about 6000 years old. This leaves them looking very foolish for two reasons:1. If the whole universe were only 6000 years old and the term universe means everything existing, where was God and what was he doing for all the eons of eternity past before the universe was created. If he is the same yesterday, today and forever, as the Scripture claims, my YEC friends have a big problem.2. The universe is just too massive and complex to make any sense out of it being a few thousand years old.But wait. Even big bang creos have basically the same problem. Why? Because, with God, 15 billion years is analogious to the wink of the eye relative to eternity. So if the BB is their cup of tea, they still have this big, big problem of where God was before and what was he doing with nothing around him for the eons of eternity before?This is why I see Genesis one the way I do. My buzsaw hypothesis is that the universe had no beginning and will never end. It is as eternal as God, who has been eternally creating, reaaranging, managing and destroying things in his universe at will. No other hypothesis that I know of satiisfies the thermodynamic laws of the universe as well as this, since the Biblical scriptures state that all things came from God and in him all things exist. Thus the all powerful/energetic supreme God (Jehovah) of the universe is the source of all energy and matter. When anything was created by him, energy came forth from his being to create.The earth, as well as all the rest of the universe, except the rest of our Solar System were likely created, each in their own time before day four when the sun, moon and likely the rest of our Solar System were created. Since the sun and moon were to determine the days, years, et al, nobody knows how long days one, two, three or four were. The 24 hour day likely began on day five.Edited to clarify the last paragraph.This message has been edited by buzsaw, 11-14-2005 12:35 AM

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

Hi Randman. I believe time would be relative to each body, event and thing created and coming to pass. So as per Genesis one, In the beginning........In the beginning of what, is the question. Answer: In the beginning of the work done on the void earth and in the beginning of the heavens, et al relative to and needful for planet earth.The statement of Jesus of which you cite is found in Revelation 1:8, Rev 21:6 and 22:13. These statements of Jesus appear to be asserting that when each and every thing/event began and when each end, he exists in one form or another, either in the Holy Spirit, from whom he was born a man or as the man Jesus when he was born of the virgin via the Holy Spirit of Jehovah, supreme god of the universe. As with the Father, he is the I Am, the existing one (meaning of the name, Jehovah/YHWH)Edited to add Biblical references: Colossians 1:16,17: This message has been edited by buzsaw, 11-14-2005 01:12 AM

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

The doctrine of the trinity comes to play here. Note that I edited in Colosians 1:16, 17 at the end of my last post. Both Greek texts from which most translations originated have it "created through him," and not "created by him." It was Jehovah, the father who sent forth his Holy Spirit to do the actual work, the Holy Spirit being the multipresent entity of the trinity. Jesus came forth from that Holy Spirit, spirit of both the father and the son. Thus, imo, the "through" and not the "by." See Psalms 104, about verse 30 or so for the reference where God sends forth his spirit to do the work of creating in the universe.Gotta hit hay. g'nite/morning.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

It is how I see Genesis 1:1,2,3, related to the topic title and OP. In order for the hypothesis to make sense, I found it necessary to address some of the context.Edited to add: After rereading the OP more carefully, I see that we did get away from the purpose of the thread which seems to be more about the meanings of words and phrases in the various texts. My apologies. Some opinions were expressed during the discussion, however, as to the interpretations of the wording of these verses. My comments did relate to some of that, as well as the comment in the OP about creating out of nothing, et al.I'll reserve comment, unless it relates directly to topic or comments of others about the OP.This message has been edited by buzsaw, 11-15-2005 12:40 AM

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw