Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,913 Year: 4,170/9,624 Month: 1,041/974 Week: 368/286 Day: 11/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   General Theory of Evolution
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 18 of 63 (18405)
09-27-2002 5:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Defiant Heretic
09-25-2002 2:57 AM


You should try to define each and every term you use, then you would see how your formulation is problematical.
What does beneficial trait mean?
Clearly you have not stated a general theory of evolution but a hodgepodge of special case evolution involving carnivores, sexually reproducing, and competing organisms. For it to be general you should not mention peculiarities like carnivores, sexual reproduction, and even competition in the fundaments of the theory. Also you seem to be stating the theory of natural selection, and not evolution.
If you start defining terms then you would see that the only escape from the conceptual mess you have created, is to have a general theory of reproduction, and then have mutation as incident to reproduction to explain evolution.
---
That would go something like below.
General Theory of Reproduction
A cursory glance at the fossilrecord reveals the fate of organic life in general, all organisms die. Therefore only through continuous reproduction are there any organisms left in the world. The question of interest then becomes, how does an organism reproduce?
The answer from nature can fill many books. There is an incredible diversity of organisms, living in an incredibly diverse environment, and there are many ways and happenstances by which an organism can come to reproduce. To deal with the unicity of Nature in respect to the reproduction of organisms, a clear understanding of the consequences of reproduction in general is needed.
To simplify matters, I will anchor the understanding of the nature of reproduction in the observation of the most simple organism, the DNA molecule. Not only does the DNA molecule function in the development of traits, but it can also reproduce itself independent of any trait. When DNA is put on a feedingdish, without a cell, without a body to carry it, it is still capable to use the resources on the dish to assemble copies of itself. And so are the newly assembled copies of DNA able to make copies of themselves from the resources on the dish. The ability of the copies to also make copies results in the number of DNA molecules to increase faster and faster. The resources on the dish will become scarce leading to competition for resources for reproduction. Some DNA might get tangled up leading to changes in the stucture of the DNA molecule. A small example of descent with modification, or evolution.
- larger domain of possible organic structures, the smaller domain of possible organic structures that reproduce
- scenario's
same structures in same environment
same structures in different environments
different structures in same environment
different structures in different environments
- possible relationships of organisms/traits to it's environment
the relationship contributes to reproduction
the relationship hinders reproduction
the relationship doesn't hinder or contribute reproduction
- sexual reproduction and asexual reproduction
-definition
reproductive unit
environment
selection
chance of reproduction
evolution
mutation
trait
competition
etc. etc. like that....
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Defiant Heretic, posted 09-25-2002 2:57 AM Defiant Heretic has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Dr_Tazimus_maximus, posted 09-27-2002 12:39 PM Syamsu has replied
 Message 26 by peter borger, posted 09-28-2002 7:36 PM Syamsu has replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 23 of 63 (18440)
09-27-2002 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Dr_Tazimus_maximus
09-27-2002 12:39 PM


You have it the wrong way round, a general theory of reproduction is not a part of Natural Selection, but Natural Selection is arguably a part of a general theory of reproduction. Natural Selection deals with one special instance of reproduction namely differential reproductive success of variants. Natural Selection doesn't deal with samestructure organisms in different environments for instance, while a general theory of reproduction does.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Dr_Tazimus_maximus, posted 09-27-2002 12:39 PM Dr_Tazimus_maximus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Brad McFall, posted 09-28-2002 6:06 PM Syamsu has not replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 27 of 63 (18529)
09-29-2002 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by peter borger
09-28-2002 7:36 PM


I didn't know this, but still I consider proteins a resource, and not a trait, because that is consistent with how those words are most commonly defined as far as I know. Also someone told me that it was proven on the molecular level that the assembly of DNA follows from the action of the DNA molecule, and not from the action of the resources on the DNA. Selection of "naked" RNA, I was looking for something like that, thanks for your comments.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by peter borger, posted 09-28-2002 7:36 PM peter borger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by peter borger, posted 10-02-2002 1:30 AM Syamsu has replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 36 of 63 (18719)
10-01-2002 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by nos482
10-01-2002 8:39 AM


Creationism works like "Creatio ex nihilo" creation from nothing. I think the closest you can come to formulating how creation works, is to consider a decision / choice a creation event. A choice as per definition has no causes (nihilo) that force a particular outcome, but it has identities choosing an outcome. The work of creationism is then to find the decisive points in time at which man and the main kinds of organisms were in effect chosen to be, when it became a relative certainty there would be people. The evolution/formation of mankind largely being a certain aftereffect in relation to those few moments, like a rock falling to earth.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by nos482, posted 10-01-2002 8:39 AM nos482 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by nos482, posted 10-01-2002 12:48 PM Syamsu has not replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 42 of 63 (18807)
10-02-2002 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by peter borger
10-02-2002 1:30 AM


Oh I see now..., yes a trait then.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by peter borger, posted 10-02-2002 1:30 AM peter borger has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024