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Author Topic:   Is the TOE falsifiable and if it was, would it advance Biblical Creationism
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 115 of 169 (344247)
08-28-2006 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Faith
08-28-2006 3:05 AM


Re: no zero-sum solution
quote:
Maybe He won't. Maybe He doesn't want this problem solved. That's crossed my mind many times. He wants trust in Him by faith. He may withhold knowledge in this particular theologically sensitive area for that purpose.
Or perhaps you've been mistaken all along and you are following a Satan-influenced false interpretation of the Bible.
Perhaps God has allowed this problem to be solved already, and you have been misled by false prophets under demonic influence.

"Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends! Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!"
- Ned Flanders
"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Faith, posted 08-28-2006 3:05 AM Faith has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 116 of 169 (344249)
08-28-2006 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Hughes
08-28-2006 4:03 AM


quote:
My accusation that ToE isn't science but philosophy, is based in the fact that it's directly tied to the philosophy of naturalism.
Do you refer to Methodological Naturalism or Ontological Naturalism?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Hughes, posted 08-28-2006 4:03 AM Hughes has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 130 of 169 (344294)
08-28-2006 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Faith
08-28-2006 1:18 PM


Re: OK I'll cahnge my mind
quote:
{edit: In your example it is true that nothing is lost. A mutation that spreads in a population would be the introduction of something new to that population. Why do you always choose hypotheticals rather than something actual? You could have chosen the sickle cell example for instance.
...or the gene known as CCR5, the identified mutation of which confers partial or total immunity to HIV.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Faith, posted 08-28-2006 1:18 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Faith, posted 08-28-2006 1:51 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 134 of 169 (344311)
08-28-2006 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Faith
08-28-2006 1:51 PM


Re: OK I'll cahnge my mind
quote:
It kills T cells in the process I understand.
No.
It interferes with T-cell function to a certain extent. It is thought that other receptors can compensate for the difference. The evidence for this is, of course, that people with the mutation live completely healthy lives.
The only reason we know that people have been harboring this mutation for several hundred years is because of the recent emergence of another virus, HIV, which uses the same receptor as the Plague and Smallpox.
If HIV had never appeared on the scene, we would probably still be ignorant of it.
Since HIV is here, though, how lucky for those people who have the mutation, eh?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Faith, posted 08-28-2006 1:51 PM Faith has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 135 of 169 (344316)
08-28-2006 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by NosyNed
08-28-2006 2:11 PM


Re: Sickle cell deaths
1) if you get two sickle alleles you die. You probably don't breed.
2) if you get one you are less likely to die of malaria.
3) if you use population genetics and put in a range of numbers for the selective pressures represented by sickle cell and malaria you get populations that correspond with the allele mix of malaria endemic areas.
4) As predicted by population genetics the prevalence of sickle raises and falls with the incidence of malaria.
This is correct as far as I know, Ned.
I'll also mention that those with only one copy of the gene are known as "carriers" and are largely asymptomatic. They may have some unusual shortness of breath in high altitudes, that sort of thing.
Form the wiki:
Normally, a person inherits two genes (one from each parent) that produce beta-globin, a protein needed to produce normal hemoglobin (hemoglobin A). A person with sickle cell trait inherits one normal beta-globin gene (hemoglobin A) and one defective gene (hemoglobin S).
People with sickle cell trait rarely have symptoms due to the condition because they also have some normal hemoglobin. However, they can pass the sickle cell trait to their children.

This message is a reply to:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 146 of 169 (344394)
08-28-2006 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Faith
08-28-2006 4:54 PM


Re: Evidence
quote:
Marine fossils on top of a mountain suggest the explanation that the fossils got there during an episode of marine exposure. Evos say that's because the land that became the mountain formed under the sea. We say if you're going to go that far, admit it was formed in the Flood.
Why should we "admit" that if there's no evidence for a worldwide Flood?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Faith, posted 08-28-2006 4:54 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Faith, posted 08-28-2006 6:27 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 151 of 169 (344416)
08-28-2006 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Faith
08-28-2006 6:27 PM


Re: Evidence
quote:
Maybe it would have helped if I'd put a smiley after the sentence?
Oh. Jocularity. I get it.
quote:
Seriously, however, it's a more parsimonious or elegant explanation than having to postulate a different local dunking for each mountain on which you find marine fossils.
Er, the mountains weren't "dunked", as it were.
The mountains used to be sea floor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Faith, posted 08-28-2006 6:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Faith, posted 08-29-2006 7:59 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 161 of 169 (344681)
08-29-2006 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by Faith
08-29-2006 7:59 AM


Re: Evidence
quote:
It's just odd that all the mountains with marine fossils were once "sea floor" in their separate localities. But that theory in itself is good evidence for the Flood. Evos are always saying things that support the Flood while denying it.
As ramoss said, dating dashes your hopes here. Also the ordering of the fossils in the geologic column hits them hard as well.
The evidence needs to be taken as a whole, Faith, not in little bits and pieces.
As a whole, the Flood theory cannot explain ALL of the evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Faith, posted 08-29-2006 7:59 AM Faith has not replied

  
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