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Author Topic:   Evolution theory and teratology
Granny Magda
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Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.8


(2)
Message 6 of 17 (582544)
09-21-2010 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Yrreg
09-21-2010 9:02 PM


Re: Mutation and millions of years determine good, bad, or neutral mutation.
Hi Yrreg,
Mutation and millions of years determine good, bad, or neutral mutation.
No. Mutation is just mutation. Natural Selection determines whether it is good or bad. This happens on a very much shorter scale than "millions of years".
Mutation can be good, bad, or neutral.
Yes.
We will know that after millions of years and we are still around and the mutation proves to be good.
No. A "good" mutation (a more accurate term might be "beneficial") is one that helps the individual organisms that carry it to survive and successfully reproduce. Note that I'm talking about the day-to-day, year-on-year process of survival and reproduction here; ordinary organisms surviving, finding mates and making babies. If the mutation helps its carrier survive long enough to produce viable offspring, then the mutation is considered to be beneficial.
As an example, imagine a bird that carries a mutation that gives it sharper eyesight. That bird would be better able to find food, to avoid predators, to find a mate or find a good nesting site. These advantages, though slight, would add up to an increase in the bird's chances of surviving and successfully reproducing. Thus the gene is more likely to get passed on and is considered beneficial.
Millions of years are not required, unless you want to talk about many generations.
Bad is when the mutation did not enable the changed species to survive millions of years.
No. Bad (a better term might be "harmful") mutations are those that hinder an organism's efforts to survive and to reproduce. If a mutation makes it harder for the organism carrying the mutation to survive long enough to successfully reproduce, that mutation is considered harmful. Remember, we're talking about a mutation that would have originated in a single individual here. If it makes that individual (or any offspring that carry the same gene) less likely to survive and successfully reproduce, it is harmful.
As an example, imagine a bird that carries a mutation that gives it blurry eyesight. That bird would be less able to find food, less able to avoid predators, less able to find a mate or find a good nesting site. These disadvantages, though slight, would add up to a decrease in the bird's chances of surviving and successfully reproducing. Thus the gene is less likely to get passed on and is considered harmful.
Again, millions of years need not come into it, unless you want to talk about many generations.
And neutral if the mutated feature is still around but we can't figure out why it is still around, how it serves in enabling the mutated species to survive to the present.
No. A neutral mutation is one that neither helps nor hinders the organism.
If we weren't able to figure out what a given mutation does, then we would not be able to say for certain whether it was beneficial, harmful or neutral. Most mutations however, are neutral.
If a mutation actually did serve in "enabling the mutated species to survive to the present", it would be beneficial, not neutral.
That is really scientific thinking in terms of what, like for example the theory of relativity?
Mmm. If I were you Yrreg, I'd stick to one theory at a time.
Mutate and Survive

"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Yrreg, posted 09-21-2010 9:02 PM Yrreg has not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 15 of 17 (582698)
09-22-2010 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Yrreg
09-22-2010 7:54 PM


Re: Of course you have got stock answers to all the questions...
Hi Yrreg,
Of course you have got stock answers to all the questions people outside your box address to you.
Oh Christ. Please don't start that box stuff again.
Stock answers from the stocks of your authority doctrinaire mentors.
If you wish to engage in any meaningful way with the Theory of Evolution, whether you intend to challenge it, support it, or simply understand it, you need to know what the theory actually says.
Your little potted version of mutation and natural selection was wrong in almost every detail. I gave you the accepted version, the kind of summary of the very basics that you would get in any Biology 101 classroom. Until you grasp those basics, you are wasting your time pontificating on a theory you do not understand.
You might, at some point, like to find out what the Theory of Evolution actually says. Then, when you understand at least the basics, you might be able to make meaningful statements about it. You don't have to believe it, but at least then you'll know what it is that you disagree with.
It's called "learning". Go on, give it a whirl. It might help you avoid those strawmen you're so critical of.
Mutate and Survive

"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Yrreg, posted 09-22-2010 7:54 PM Yrreg has not replied

  
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