Problems with both Creationism and Evolution

I believe that this link will answer your question about Creation: http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/3791.asp"The universe requires a cause because it had a beginning, as will be shown below. God, unlike the universe, had no beginning, so doesn’t need a cause."

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Originally posted by octipice:
If god always existed, then why could the universe not have always existed?

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The reason is that there is EVIDENCE that the universe had a beginning. Check the link I provided.God, BY DEFINITION, had no beginning, thus requires no cause.

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Originally posted by John:
I define the universe as having always existed. Does this definition change anything? I think not. The Tao is defined as having always existed, has it?

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Again, the PROBLEM is that there is good evidence that the universe had a beggining. If you want to blindly believe that the universe has always existed on faith- that's fine with me.If the God of the Bible was described as having a beginning, then there would be a problem. However, the Bible clearly describes God as always existing- which happens to be perfectly consistent with the laws of cause and effect.In short, there is evidence that the universe had a beginning, God is described in the Bible as being always existing, so therefore Christians have no trouble in answering the question "Who made God"?

"Keep it in context. You argued that 'God, by DEFINITION....'
so I argued by DEFINITION as well, and see what fit you had?"Ok, but the universe HAS NOT NECCESARILY always been, by definition. You can BELIEVE that it always has been if you wish to, but this unfortunately flies in the face of science which you claim to have great respect for. Sorry if it seems like I'm having a fit, but what you're saying doesn't make much sense to me. You can say that the universe, by definition, has always been- but that is simply untrue.The original question asked of me was this:"god was supposed to have created life and just about everything else, but who created god? If god always existed then why could life and the universe not have already existed?"Octipice was clearly referring to God, and the God I believe in, BY DEFINITION, always has been and always will be, and thus He is not subject to the laws of cause and effect. That answers the first question.The second question was "If god always existed then why could life and the universe not have already existed?" The reason is, there is good evidence that the universe DID have a beginning. It is true that the universe COULD have already existed, but again, this flies in the face of scientific knowledge."The PROBLEM is that there is no good evidence of the God of the Bible. If you want to blindly believe that god has always existed on faith- that's fine with me."I don't feel like getting into a discussion about the existence of God in this forum. I answered the original questions completely and fully.

"A 'by definition' argument is nothing but 'cause I said so' ie. meaningless."Alright, I understand where you are coming from. I should have said that the Christian God of the Bible is by definition always existing. It is true that God does not have to neccesarily always have been, but the God of the Bible is clearly described as having always existed.