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Author Topic:   Role of Mutations
MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6383 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 30 of 62 (326223)
06-25-2006 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by PetVet2Be
06-25-2006 9:12 PM


Welcome to EvC - I hope you enjoy your stay.
If you do come up with one I know exactly which one it will be. And it comes with a nasty side effect, so it doesnt really count as a positive mutation.
So what's the nasty side effect of the CCR5-delta-32 mutation that makes you immune from HIV/AIDS?
Oh wait - did you think I'd come up with the Sickle Cell Anemia mutation that provides increased resistance to malaria?
A rough definition of a positive mutation is one that increases the relative number and success of your offspring (or even if you have any offspring) in the species gene pool.
I've got news for you - in parts of Africa where malaria is endemic the increased resistance to malaria outweighs the downside of the mutation, so guess what?
It's a positive mutation after all in the right environment.
At the time of this reply I've seen two of the three messages you've posted (the other one was about star formation). These messages suggest you really have some major gaps in your education and understanding. Fortunately many of the folks here at EvC will be only to happen to help enlighten you

Oops! Wrong Planet

This message is a reply to:
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MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6383 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 35 of 62 (326267)
06-26-2006 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by PetVet2Be
06-26-2006 12:23 AM


Quote Coragyps: I've got news for you - in parts of Africa where malaria is endemic the increased resistance to malaria outweighs the downside of the mutation, so guess what?
It's a positive mutation after all in the right environment.
END QUOTE
Right environment huh? That is evolution's greatest weakness you know. It is mathematically impossible for all the circumstances to happen right.
Actually it was me, not Coragyps who said that.
Well yes of course in the right environment.
The environment can be a major selection factor. As an imaginary example suppose there is a population of some animal living on an island. There are two different mutations existing in the population, one of which causes the animal to have thicker, warmer fur while the other causes the animal to have thinner, cooler fur. Initially the island has mild winters so neither mutation is selected for. The climate then changes so that the winters become much harsher and colder. The animals with the thin fur mutation will be strongly selected against (i.e. more of them will die in winter), those with neither mutation will also be selected against (but not as strongly) while those with the thick fur mutation will be selected for. The long term result of this selection pressure from the environment will be that the thick fur mutation will become universal through the population.
Right environment huh? That is evolution's greatest weakness you know. It is mathematically impossible for all the circumstances to happen right.
Well I'm sure you'll have no trouble showing us the maths to demonstrate this then (in accordance with rule 4 in the Forum Guidelines).
Edit: I see while I was typing this you put in some AIG links purporting to 'do' the probability. I dare say others will refute them while I'm offline (which I will be in a few minutes until late today or tomorrow). Suffice to say for now they're about the quality you'd expect from AIG.
In order to support evolution these mutations need to add information to genes.
Groan....
There are seemingly endless threads on this subject on this site. If you can substantiate your assertion you should post in one of them. All you will need to do is provide a meaningful definition of information and describe how we can measure it so we can tell if it has been added or removed.
You're the latest in a long line of creationists spouting this drivel - not one of them to date has been able to back up what they say.
Edited by MangyTiger, : Added comment on AIG probability calculations.

Oops! Wrong Planet

This message is a reply to:
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MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6383 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 48 of 62 (328817)
07-04-2006 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by arachnophilia
07-03-2006 9:16 PM


purebred dogs, btw, are prone to problems because they are inbred. which is bad for anything. the persian cats above are prone to tear duct problems (ie: they can't stop crying, they get infected, etc) because we have designed them that way, overriding natural selection.
This might just be a variation on what you're saying but I think that many of the problems purebred dogs have aren't due to inbreeding per se, they are because the Breed Standards specify a 'look' which is based more on a Victorian or Edwardian fashion statement than any consideration of the physical well-being of the animal. I think it was schraf who pointed out a while ago that all Bulldogs have to be born by C-section because following the Breed Standard for large heads has led to the point where the puppies can't fit down the birth canal.
So in the case of pedigree dogs it isn't that they are inbred but that the inbreeding had been deliberately directed towards an end that causes unwanted problems as a side-effect (your we have designed them that way).

Oops! Wrong Planet

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by arachnophilia, posted 07-03-2006 9:16 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
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