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Author | Topic: scientific end of evolution theory (2) | |||||||||||||||||||
derwood Member (Idle past 1905 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Yes, and therefore where is the bad news for evolution as a whole? Or is your beef just with the original formulation of the NDT form the 1930s?quote: What game is that? The one in which you take evidence for evolution and use it to claim the opposite?
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derwood Member (Idle past 1905 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: You said that the NT can not be part of NDT. You then blabber on about the NDT being formulated in the 1930s and 1940s. You write as if that were the end of it.In creationism, once an idea is established, that is it. No change possible. In science, however, ideas change as warranted. Since the NT was shown to have merit, its supported tenets have become part of the ToE, whether you like it or not. quote: Yes, we are in denial that the handful of what you claim to be examples in favor of your hypothesis disproves or falsifies anything. You ingored my analogy - if we can provide evidence that you can get to the top of the Empire State building by using the stairs, does this falsify the fact that you can also get their by elevator?Even if your examples have merit, they do not - can not - negate other aspects that do support randomness, such as the NT which you claimn to like.[/quote] And you say:"The neutral theory does not preclude beneficial mutations at all. Not one bit. The NTs central tenet is that most molecular change is neutral or nearly so. You are right, Kimura acknowledged beneficial mutations. Why wouldn't he have?" I say (as mentioned earlier):"What on earth do you require a neutral theory for anyway? If it demonstrates something it is stability of phenotype. Not change, or evolution as you like to have it"[/quote] Nobody 'requires' it. Kimura formulated it and tested his hypotheses regarding it due to his observations of amino acid substituion. The only 'need' was to explain the data, which is contrary to your position, which seems to be hunt for data to support the hypothesis.quote: Well, some of us are forced to play with our ears plugged and eyes closed, aren't we?
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derwood Member (Idle past 1905 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Sure, creationist. Anytime you'd like.
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derwood Member (Idle past 1905 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fred Williams:
[B] quote: This isn’t entirely accurate, or at least is not telling the whole story. Kimura formulated the neutral theory because the mathematics did not support NeoDarwinian evolution, not because of direct observation of amino acid substitution. [/quote] More mnisrepresentation from engineer creationist Williams. Hey Fred - hadn't you heard? Saying something over and over again does not make it true.quote: Yes, I have read your repeated use of this cribbed ReMine quote. Have you read the original source, I wonder? If so, you might have noticed that the NT was FORMULATED via observation of evidence. quote: If you say so. Hey - I was wondering - how does one go about making evidence fit a theory? You must know, as it is your position that Kimura formulated the NT for the purpose of 'combatting' Haldane's dilemma. I mean if Haldane's model was completekly accurate, as you imply, then there must have been lots of evidence for it. If this is so, how did Kimura find evidence to support the NT?quote: Ahh - here we go with the large number of births argument. I have asked - what, about 8 times now? - for you to tell us all what your "40 births per breeding couple just to maintain equilibrium" really means, as you must know. As of yet, no reply.But why would the population need to be maintained? Oh - because Haldane's model required it. Thats right. Say - have you evidence that the population of all extinct primates remained ocnstant throughout their existence such that Haldanbe's model applied to them at all times?quote: Yeah - it is cute how the lay creationist twists reality to prop up their poor grasp of the science. Williams does that quite a bit.
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derwood Member (Idle past 1905 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Wow - tweedles dum and dummer, together at last! Funny thing though - it is only internet creationists that seem to think this... Wonder why that is....
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derwood Member (Idle past 1905 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Snore.....
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derwood Member (Idle past 1905 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Well, humans do like to classify things. Once enough criteria have been met, it is difficult not to.
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derwood Member (Idle past 1905 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Please, start a new thread.----- Note from Adminnemooseus - The new thread, "Unwarranted conclusions in Evolution Theory", is at:http://EvC Forum: Unwarranted conclusions in Evolution Theory -->EvC Forum: Unwarranted conclusions in Evolution Theory [This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 09-20-2002]
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derwood Member (Idle past 1905 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Pardon my language, but that is complete bullshit.
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derwood Member (Idle past 1905 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Hmmm...J Interferon Cytokine Res 2001 Nov;21(11):899-904 Identification of a novel human cytokine gene in the interleukin gene cluster on chromosome 2q12-14. Bensen JT, Dawson PA, Mychaleckyj JC, Bowden DW. Program in Molecular Medicine, Wake Forest University School of Medicine, Winston-Salem, NC 27157, USA. Genes in the interleukin-1 (IL-1) gene cluster on human chromosome 2 play an important role in mediating inflammatory responses and are associated with numerous diseases. We have identified a novel IL-1-like gene, IL-1F10, on human chromosome 2q13-14.1 near the IL-1 receptor antagonist gene (IL-1RN). The IL1F10 gene is encoded by 5 exons spanning over 7.8 kb of genomic DNA. The 1008-bp IL-1F10 cDNA encodes a 152-amino acid protein that shares between 41% and 43% amino acid identity with human IL-1 receptor antagonist (IL-1Ra) and FIL-1delta, respectively. IL-1F10 shares characteristics of the IL-1Ra family, including key amino acid consensus sequences and a similar genomic structure. By multitissue first-strand cDNA PCR analysis, IL-1F10 mRNA is expressed in heart, placenta, fetal liver, spleen, thymus, and tonsil. The expression in a variety of immune tissues and similarity to IL-1Ra suggest a role of IL-1F10 in the inflammatory response.
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