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Author Topic:   The origin of new alleles
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 64 of 92 (382088)
02-03-2007 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Hawks
02-03-2007 5:05 AM


Re: The origin of new alleles or the ordination of alleles?
quote:
It should be added that it holds approximately for multifactorial characters in an effectively random breeding population if selective differences between leading alleles are constant and all of lower order than the recombination rates of the loci
quote:
Genic and Organismic Selection
Sewall Wright
Evolution, Vol. 34, No. 5 (Sep., 1980), pp. 825-843

Is the thread discussing the transitivity to a place on a leader allele ledger or the creation of the ledger account itself? If the latter it may matter whether it is constructed probabilistically (and in connection with EvC discussin of ID or not) or based on a similar multiplicative math but with "Zero" added.
quote:
Genes G1 and G2 may be connected by other compound paths of this sort (paths that do not pass through the zygote more than once). Thus:
(7:10) F=SUM(0.5^n(1+FA))
where the summation is with respect to all such paths (Wright 1922a).
The symbol F is to be interpreted as the correlation between pairs of homologous genes in the class of uniting gametes that trace in the way indicated by the pedigree to the foundation stock, relative to the array of genes at any neutral locus in this stock. It has, of course, no relevance to loci that are homoallelic. When F is derived in this way it may be referred to as pedigree F.
The relativity referred to above has sometimes been overlooked or misinterpreted (Fisher 1949, p 43). A correlation coefficient is, of course, always relative. It is a property of the population as well as of the two variables. In the case of F as an inbreeding coefficient, relating to all heterallelic neutral loci, its primary function is that of a parameter in the specification of population structure. This is still largely true in other applications in which the peculiarities of a particular locus to which it pertains are important.
There may seem to be a difficulty in the likelihood that the foundation stock may be itself more or less inbred relative to a more remote stock. If, however, there is any heterallelism in the foundation stock in neutral loci, avearge F of a later period measures the correlation between uniting gametes relative to the array of gene frequencies at such loci, and the decline in the heterozygosis relative to an immediate panmictic derivative of the foundation stock. It does not necessarily measure the decline relative to the actual heterozygosis. The foundation stock might conceivable consist of a mixture of homoallelic lines (F=1). If the initial matings are made a random, F falls at once to zero and then, on breeding wholly within the stock, gradually rises. It is the decline in heterozygosis that occurs during such a rise in F that is measured.
Malecot (1948) has pointed out that the formulat for pedigree F may be interpreted as the probability that the two genes in question are identical by descent from the foundation stock. This holds because the compound path coefficient, ba’ =.05, is interpretable as the probability of identity by descent of a gene with one of those back of it a generation earlier, because the compound path coefficient bA^2 =0.5(1+FA) is interpretable as the probability that the homologous genes in two random gametes of zygote A are identical by descent, and because of the fact that probabilities, like path coefficients, compound along paths of multiplication. Many who use F solely as a measure of inbreeding, relative to the genes of the foundation stock, prefer the simple concept of probability of identity of descent to that of correlation of homologous genes of a certain class. The latter concept, however is required from the broader standpoint of a group of parameters useful for the identification of population structure in general. This is because a correlation coefficient can vary between -1 and +1, whereas a probability can vary only between 0 and 1. There will be occasion later to discuss cases of negative F and . ”
quote:
Evolution and the Genetics of Populations Volume 2 by Sewall Wright p177-78
Edited by Brad McFall, : quote reference
Edited by Brad McFall, : deleted extra words

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Hawks, posted 02-03-2007 5:05 AM Hawks has not replied

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 80 of 92 (383041)
02-06-2007 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by crashfrog
02-06-2007 6:38 PM


Re: Digital codes and their athletic abilities
WK said,"technically."
The whole issue of using "language" to try to gain biological insight expanded (the development of "theoretical biology")after the notion of "the code"(triples per amino) and I think it was in this latter time (late 60s and early 70s) when for instance Kaufmann got his begining motivation about biology by lights that turn off and on digitally(pre auto-catalytic thought etc)and such that was but certainly since Wolfram there is a very precise tendency NOT to go back to the differences that say seperated the mathematician Rene Thom and Francis Cricks ideas on morphogenesis.
Your word "analogy" and WoundKing's "spectrum" seem to be dissonantly resonating becuase they may refer to different periods in the history of biology, yes?
Did you not simply misread WK?
When he said,
quote:
I'm not sure how epigenetic phenomena would affect that classification.
Is that not the same as your questioning a "reality"?
But look as soon as one starts to think about DNA computers, which as an idea have at the present little to do with extant physiology per say ,may(have true physiological connections).... later. The discrete nature of DNA may be used to write an algorithm that time releases drugs in th soma etc, future, yes, but thought today- yes, also.
Yes, there is some issue using "language" and discrete ideas about "letters" (A,C,G,T) discreetly but this notion of disjunction does proceed from the time of the "code" rather than the digital reductionism from the 70s to us, and we have in the latest fad of nanotechnology, seems to me.
Edited by Brad McFall, : grammer/language
Edited by Brad McFall, : precision
Edited by Brad McFall, : claification

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by crashfrog, posted 02-06-2007 6:38 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
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