Totally offtopic compilation of incorrect statements and personal bias. Please do not respond to this message.

Which is why you should not be surprised if someone chooses not to discuss the scientific truths revealed in the Bible. People with your mindset refuse to acknowledge that the Bible could have anything scientific to say. I know this from past experiences, as well as the fact that although you "claim" to have read the Bible you display a flippant attitude towards the truths revealed within its' pages. Ah yes, so you and others have said on numerous occasions and yet, I sincerely doubt that most of you have ever made a serious, heartfelt attempt to really get to know the author. Using terms such as "Goddunit" is a dead giveaway that you have never taken the neccessary time nor expended the often difficult effort that is required to gain even a basic understanding of God, the Love He has for His creation, or the sacrifice He made when He sent His son to die a brutal death so that we could all be spared what the righteousness of God demands.Do that and then we can have an honest, open, and sincere discussion about the Bible because once you have done that in a truly humble manner, then and only then will you know without question what I know, that God is God and nothing outside of that reality has any lasting value or meaning.This message has been edited by AdminJar, 08-12-2005 12:20 PM

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"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

I think that part of this message is on topic for a thread on what qualifications are required for discussion on various topics here.I would like admin permission to reply.

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Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"select * from USERS where CLUE > 0http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

Of course. Won't be the first time I've been wrong.

1. Is it your contention that anyone who has "...taken the necessary time ... required to gain even a basic understanding of God..." would HAVE to come to your conclusion.2. Is it your contention that this "understanding" is objective rather than subjective?3. Is it your contention that anyone NOT coming to your conclusion is not true a Christian?4. Is this saying that if they do not believe as you do, that they could NOT have made a "serious, heartfelt attempt?"5. How do you or anyone else decide who has or has not made that attempt?Please remember that these are not accusations, they are questions.

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Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"select * from USERS where CLUE > 0http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

Allow me to answer these one by one...1. No, as is evidenced by the numerous opinions and positions that are held throughout christendom. One example...Joseph Smith obviously did so and yet he decided to offer what Mormons consider "another gospel of Jesus Christ" even though Paul tells us in chapter 1 of his letter to the Galatians... 2. Both, depending upon the verse or verses in question and remembering that the Bible intreprets itself quite nicely if one is willing to accept it in its' entirety.3. No, not at all. It is God who judges the hearts of us all and it is He who gives the understanding. I accept that Peter was not neccessarily given the same depth and degree of understanding that Paul was given.4. Only God can tell for sure, I only have my own sense of perception to rely upon.5. One criteria would be to examine how much of the Bible they are willing to accept as the Word of God.You may want to read my comments in... Message 290

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"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

Are you saying that Gospels that appeared after Paul wrote Galatians should be ignored?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

You may want to edit out your BOLD RED TYPE in Message 151 so that others will not feel the need to request what Asgara requested in Message 152.

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"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

Nope, they can ask.AbE:I wanted to expand on this so that perhaps you will understand.First, we do not go back and make editorial changes that modify the intent and meaning of the message. That includes comments by Admins.Second, there are the followup messages between Asgara and myself that they can use for guidance.I still believe the post is offtopic, but others may well disagree. That's kinda typical of this forum. There are many differing perspectives to be found here.I hope you understand.This message has been edited by AdminJar, 08-12-2005 11:11 PM

Though we may often use the term "gospel" when discussing various books of the Bible, we are not referring to "another gospel" as was Joseph Smith. There is only one gospel, the gospel of Jesus Christ, revealed to us by Christ through His servants and not some supposed angel from heaven, which is how Joseph Smith claimed he received his "other gospel" which cannot stand up to the scrutinity of the Bible itself.

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"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

So other Gospels that came after Paul, are acceptable?edited to fix spelling.This message has been edited by jar, 08-12-2005 11:12 PM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Let us start again. The animosity that obviously exists between us serves no purpose if the cause of Christ is our goal. I do not accept your opinion on what the Bible teaches, neither do I expect you to accept mine. Let us agree to disagree in certain areas in the hope that Christ is glorified and that the gospel of Christ is not put to shame by our behaviour.

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Peace!This message has been edited by EltonianJames, 08-13-2005 12:29 AM

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"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

No problem, I'm always looking for new starts.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

You use the term "gospels" (plural), but I contend that there is only one "gospel" and not several "gospels". The so-called "gospel" offered by Joseph Smith is not the "gospel of Jesus Christ" because it contradicts the Bible.

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"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

But there are many parts of the accepted Gospel that contradict the others. The intent may be to promote the story of Jesus, but if we narrow the criteria to just the Bible, then we need to answer the question which Bible. Are we talking about the Common Canon, the Syrian Canon, the Ethiopian Canon?In addition, why should we try to restrict GOD? We know that GOD spoke to the jews. He later spoke through Jesus, later through Paul. How can anyone justify saying that GOD can't talk after Paul (or Mark, or Matthew, or Luke, or John). Why couldn't GOD speak to Joseph Smith just as he did to Mohhamud?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I am quite sure that I will disagree with you but I would still appreciate your supplying the parts of the gospel that you feel contradict others.When I use the term "Bible" I am referring to the word of God as received by Adam,...Abraham,...Moses,...Israel(Jacob)...Peter,...James,...John,...Paul and all the others in between. One rule I follow is if what one presents seems to contradict the Living Word of God, namely Jesus, then what they have presented must be re-examined and if it does contradict the Word, it must be rejected.In all my studies, I have found no instance of contradiction in the Bible, though there may be instances of differences within different translations or of God using a different approach towards men throughout His Word. However, God does not contradict His own Word, not ever. The greek orthodox bible does not include the book of revelation. Does this mean that I have torn that book from my Bible? No! The catholic bible, (at least the copy I have), includes the apocryphal books. Does this mean I have stuffed them into my Rotherhams'? No! God can speak through anyone, even us if He so chooses, but He will not contradict His own Word. One need only read the book of mormon or the quran to see that neither meets the standard of not contradicting the Word of God in its' entirety.

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"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein