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Author
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Topic: The bible and homosexuality
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 16 of 323 (103494)
04-28-2004 6:44 PM
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Beyond Leviticus there really is nothing in the Bible relating to homosexuality. Paul seems to say that if you have to mess around it is better to do so with the opposite sex, but that's about as far as it goes. Personally, the proscriptions in Leviticus are so off the wall that I cannot see anyone taking them seriously. But if we are, then we also should accept all of the others in Leviticus including owning slaves and everything else. Can't just pick and choose.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 20 of 323 (103520)
04-28-2004 7:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 18 by Loudmouth
04-28-2004 6:59 PM
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The other thing that needs to be taken into account when reading The Books of Paul as one of my classes used to call them, is that Paul was absolutely convinced that the second coming was an immediate prospect. His admonitions were based on that fact, and to try to procreate and raise a family when everything was about to end long before a child could grow up, seemed silly to him. Frankly, Paul's suggestion was to stay celibate since time was short, but that if you couldn't do that it was probably better to go ahead and get married. He was very much opposed to prostitution or promiscuity whether it was homosexual or heterosexual.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 18 by Loudmouth, posted 04-28-2004 6:59 PM | | Loudmouth has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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I agree that Paul did not know the day or hour, but he believed it was to come soon.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Inversion
Homosexuality is inverted behavior What does that mean?
For God to condone it, certainly would be against his establishment What does that mean?
Therefore, the laws of health as found in Leviticus, including those of sexual behavior, apply throuhout time and apply to all those who wish to obey the God who gave them. Speaking of behavior... What about Leviticus 25: 44-46? How about Exodus 21: 7
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 28 by PecosGeorge, posted 04-29-2004 2:02 PM | | PecosGeorge has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Inversion
by now the best we could do is reverse the trent by practicing what is normal, according to Adam and Eve. PG Help me here. After studying the Bible it certainly appears that what GOD considered normal was cloning, not heterosexual union. Gen 2:21-22 Unless I'm missing something it was not until after eating the apple and getting thrown out of the Garden that Adam knew Eve. Up until then reproduction seems to have been either creation or as in the case of Eve, cloning. Gen 4:1 So as good Christians, shouldn't we be moving away from such practices as heterosexual union and back to just cloning individuals?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 48 by PecosGeorge, posted 04-30-2004 12:09 PM | | PecosGeorge has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Inversion
So you agree that as Christians we should move away from Heterosexual activity and just stick to cloning for reproduction?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 69 of 323 (104516)
05-01-2004 10:13 AM
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Trying to head back within sight of the topic title, so far the only real contention that the Bible opposes homosexuality are some old testament cites. Just one question for all Christians who may still think that the Bible or Christianity are anti-homosexual, would it change your mind if the Christian Church firmly said it was NOT opposed to Homosexuality?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 85 of 323 (104822)
05-02-2004 11:30 PM
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Trying to head back towards the topic
so far no one has shown any realy Biblical discussion or prohibition against homosexuality except for a few clips from a few OT sections that also approve of Slavery, killing people for minor offences and a few silly dietary restrictions that might have made sense before refrigeration and Tums, but certainly not since.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Trying to head back towards the topic
Me too. I find the Defense of Marriage Act, and both of the proposed Amendments to the Constitution embarassing as a Christian. I am ashamed that there are any alleged Christians out there who could even contemplate anything so absurd. For all Christians, I apologize.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 92 of 323 (104839)
05-03-2004 12:43 AM
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But what does any of that have to do with the Bible and Homosexuality?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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LAM The two passages in the other thread are both from Paul. And in those, Paul is frankly pissed and jumping on his congregations. In both of those cites, there is little about the communities that Paul doesn't castigate. Those were both simple dope-slaps from the teacher and a straighten up and fly right message. To single out any Biblical angst or prohibition about homosexuality from them is a really long stretch. As in the case of Evolution, the Age of the Universe, the Literalness of the Bible, when asked to defend it, none of the fundamentalists ever come through. It simply cannot be done and hence, they cut and run or resort to trying to wear the opposition down by repeating unfound, unsupported statements again and again. Their most original tactic is to say, "Nuh-Uh!"
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 102 of 323 (105103)
05-03-2004 10:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 101 by Morte
05-03-2004 10:35 PM
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Re: Specific Passages
Morte Before you turn in that paper, take the time to read Leviticus.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 101 by Morte, posted 05-03-2004 10:35 PM | | Morte has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 104 by Morte, posted 05-04-2004 12:16 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 105 of 323 (105117)
05-04-2004 12:21 AM
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Reply to: Message 104 by Morte
05-04-2004 12:16 AM
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Re: Specific Passages
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 104 by Morte, posted 05-04-2004 12:16 AM | | Morte has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Specific Passages
When you take Romas 1:26 out of the context of the rest of the passage, you can force it to apply to homosexuality. But when you look at the rest of it...
26: For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29: Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30: Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31: Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. you find that Paul was speaking of a long litany of what he considers inappropriate behavior. In fact, there is little in the litany that he does not mention. Paul was an aesthetic. He fully believed that the second coming was to happen during his lifetime, certainly within the lifetime of those he was trying to convert. Because of this, he saw little reason for marriage, none for having children (afterall they would not have time to grow up before the second coming) and a very, very strict code of conduct. But there is nothing throught all of even Paul's writings that seems to imply that he saw homosexuality as any worse than any other form of promiscuity, or any of dozens of other behaviors.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 115 of 323 (113069)
06-06-2004 6:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 114 by berberry
06-06-2004 3:18 PM
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Re: Specific Passages
Paul was constantly, time and again, speaking out against promiscuity. It didn't matter if it was a married man seeking a man or woman other than his wife, or a married woman seeking another man or woman other than her husband, or two single men or two single woman or a a bisexual couple. But the sex is only a small part of what he rails against in each of the Pauline texts. He always includes a long list of other things, which must be included in addition to what he says about sex. Simply pulling one small part out of his epistles to favor some personal agenda is being dishonest,
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 114 by berberry, posted 06-06-2004 3:18 PM | | berberry has replied |
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