Women and the Fundamentalist View of Marriage

Of course, what is noticeable, is that you miss the parts of the bible that promote equality. Jesus talked to and treated women equally, which matters a lot to a christian.As for Corinthians, it is just referring to Genesis, in that, Adam was lonely and there wasn't found a "help meat" for him.As for Tinothy - he suffers not women to teach, yet Christ happily listened when a woman told him "even the dogs eat the crumbs from the childrens table".

Ouch - that wasn't my intention - lol. I didn't mean it to sound like women are dogs or meat. Unfortunately it was a badly thought out post, and when I re-read it, it did sound a bit like I was suggesting those things. In actual fact, I only meant by the "even the dogs eat the crumbs" is that the woman seemed to tell Jesus something she had thought up herself and she was eager to, almost - teach him, and guess what - he was pleased with her for the comment.Also, the Apostles, (who later wrote those quotes from dc85!) were astonished that Christ would treat a woman as equal in these ways.Tell me, Dan - if I am christian, should I live as a goat herder, sojourning in the land of Israel and sacrificing sheep, or should I adhere to him who saved me, me being a gentile, saved by grace, and not being asked to partake in the law, by the Apostles themselves? (as in, in Acts they only advise a few observance of laws for gentiles)- us having Christ's teachings anyway - me being a dog, and the children being the Jews. (interpreted for no less than less of a chance )This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 05-25-2004 09:27 AM

I don't see the scripture as prejudice or racist.

I guess it is a bit complicated because Jews do exist. In that, if they are in denial of the cross, then obviously they are under the law. I myself have broken Commandments, hence my dog. If I am sinful I can be forgiven by Christ, and recieve the fruit of the spirit, which fulfills the law. The Ten Commandments are very "in" and the law shall not be removed, yet we have to consider - me being a dog, I was never under the law and therefore, when I had "broken" it, the only way back was Christ. For a gentile, according to scripture, there is only one way back.If then, I partake in Christ who saves me, do I then become a Jew? I trow not, for I was always a dog, and I have been made a "child" by Christ alone. Therefore, I can only remain a child through Christ alone, and not through any work of my own.If anything, the "crumbs for the dogs" is a rarity in scripture, when the Roman says to Christ "I am not worthy for you to enter my house, for I have men under me, and I say - go, and they go...."(similar words) then Christ says, "I have not found so great a faith". So then, Christ isn't a racist or prejudice person in any way whatsoever, yet the "crumbs" shows us, if anything, his grace.Not that I see the Commandments in a lesser light. If I break them, I have still sinned. The law is there to show sin.Ofcourse, this is all New Testament.

It's okay, I know your fight is with Buzsaw, we shall name you two, Batman versus Catwoman. It may appear that the bible says men are superior to women, yet with full application of scripture, taken into account - I have discovered that the supposed creases in the shirt, are ironed out.If for example, we take the marriage as the joining of "one flesh" - how then, can the wife be the lesser? But rather it is about service. Who came and was servant to all, yet was really the Master?If a man really wants to be the head, he will be the servant. Ofcourse, maybe my opinion isn't valid though, as I am not married.

No Dan, that's not it. In the NT, it says the law is there to show sin, and also, that many be grafted in. You see, in my previous post I said that I am still sinful if I break the Commandments. Yet I do consider them. For example, I tend to observe them as best I can, in the knowledge of the fruit of the spirit. "Do no murder" for example, - I definately observe that Commandment. Yet, Christ also gave new Commandments, to love my enemy and neighbour, therefore, if anything, we can see the importance of observing those words. But, my intentions are the same - to please God. So I wouldn't seek to go against it, but rather to achieve the fruit of the spirit, which fulfills it.You see, what I am explaining, is that if I break one Commandment, I have broken them all, how then shall I be saved? It is not my intentions to continue breaking them - nor will I be justified. If you buy a house without blemish, and in moving furniture - you scrape the wallpaper, then that house will be blemished, even the whole house will lose it's perfection as people will concentrate on the scar.

If it is written that it is sinful to break them, then so be it. I don't pick and choose which ones are sinful to break. To the best of my knowledge, it is sinful to break them.If I don't observe the sabbath day, then I have failed to observe it.

My friend, the explanation is therein, my postings.I have never found an instance where there can be no possible explanation.Maybe you cannot understand what I mean by the fruit of the spirit. Either way I think it's fair to say this exchange is fruitless. I could never reconcile my belief to your mindset.

As you can see Born2preach. If you come up with an explanation, they'll still try and bring the God of the bible down. I suggest you give them nothing.Even if you are correct about the OT - their intentions will remain the same. Afterall, I offered an equal view of women/men, and they then say I should keep to the OT and treat them as the lesser. Did they miss my comments about man and woman being one flesh? - Which was written IN THE OT!?!I will respond to you shortly SleepingDragon.As for my roof, it only leaks when atheists come for coffee.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 05-26-2004 10:34 AM

Exactly - it might be best to recieve a new house, a New Testament. Afterall, I did say that as soon as I break a Commandment(blemish) then my house(me) cannot be made whole. If then, my only way forward is a new house, why would I bring old things from an old house into a house which can be kept without blemish. If I take a cup from my old house, and that cup falls and breaks my new floor, surely I have spoiled that which is new with that which is old.

Who is saying it can't be trusted?Didn't I say that the eror was mine, if I fail to observe a law?I never claimed this strawman you and Dan are putting on me. I have never done this "picking and choosing" which law is wrong or right, I have only admitted in my own failure to live by it.I will try and show you how I am thinking then; The fact is, I have failed to "divide" clothes since I was a baba. In that, my mother and father dressed me and didn't divide the cloth. If I have failed the law, how then will trying to keep it make up for the failing of it? What I am saying is that one blemish will ruin me completely, unless I sacrifice sheep, hence my dilemma, hence my New Covenant. Progression, and the taking away of the sacrifice, combined with this present day world, have me in a situation whereby I can only fail the law, not through any fault of the law, but by those things I just mentioned. What then can I do? How then can I be saved? Please if anything, answer those two questions for me.

Tee hee hee, Dan Carroll's in my fruit tree.

Okee dokee..Just ignore Born2preach, he's a confused little boy, lol! --> Only kiddin'The problem is that it seems to some people that there are contradictions. For many, this signals the end of their listening to it. I don't really see contradictions though, yet there is definately a certain change of plan in the New Testament. Yet Christ said he came to fulfill the law. We shouldn't assume there is a contradiction through the mere process of time and change. I suspect B2P hasn't read Galatians. Dee poor baba is too young.

I haven't dismissed OT rules/laws, I have just failed to keep them. What I mean is, when people assume a contradiction, I usually have an answer in my mind for the "supposed" contradictions in the bible. You mean you don't know? It is quite shocking that those who claim "contradictions" and "it is the word of man" don't infact, or have not even read about the fruit of the spirit.I don't pick and choose rules. I am, at the outset - a gentile, I was never under the law and therefore was breaking it, even other people broke it for me, and others for them. If in my failure, I change my ways and keep the law, what will that do? What will be my atonement. How can a pig forced to live in mud, wash himself clean? Ecept his owner comes and washes that pig clean himself. You are correct, you do deserve a response. I will do that as soon as I can.

You didn't take that seriously did you? I always call people such things, tis my bizarre sense of humour, which I see has failed to reach your side of the pond