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Author Topic:   Proof and analysis of Biblical end time accuracey [Synnegi]
mikehager
Member (Idle past 6498 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 118 of 155 (172392)
12-30-2004 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by mike the wiz
12-30-2004 7:53 PM


Re: Tongues
That's exactly right. Your personal unverified expierence will never be evidence.
By the way, speaking of evidence, I would like to renew my call for Umliak to provide good evidence for his claims about speaking in tongues or withdraw the claim.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by mike the wiz, posted 12-30-2004 7:53 PM mike the wiz has not replied

mikehager
Member (Idle past 6498 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 121 of 155 (172587)
12-31-2004 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by umliak
12-31-2004 7:02 PM


Re: Tongues
It's not a matter of whether or not I believe you. This is a matter of debating in good faith. You made a claim. I asked you to back it up. You are obligated to either do so or withdraw the claim. Your attempts at backing up your claim have so far failed, so produce more and better evidence or admit you were wrong.
Are you here to debate or do you think that making a bunch of unsupported assertions is going to accomplish anything? It won't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by umliak, posted 12-31-2004 7:02 PM umliak has not replied

mikehager
Member (Idle past 6498 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 123 of 155 (172629)
12-31-2004 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by umliak
12-31-2004 8:24 PM


I see.
You don't want to debate. You want people to believe things because you do.
You don't know what is and what is not evidence. Your belief that you have presented any is proof of that.
...you yourself can always simply deny believing something as true, and then expect people to respect your stance.
This is rich. I am not taking a positive stance. You are, and you are not doing it very well. You made the claim. Back it up with actual evidence or argument or withdraw.
i gave you real instances...
Have you? You said speaking in tongues was real. Then you gave a link to a site where a few other people also say it is real. These are all subjective personal accounts. If you think they constitute support of your position, I only hope that if I am ever on trial, the prosecuter thinks like you.
This message has been edited by mikehager, 12-31-2004 21:59 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by umliak, posted 12-31-2004 8:24 PM umliak has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by umliak, posted 01-01-2005 5:41 PM mikehager has not replied

mikehager
Member (Idle past 6498 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 132 of 155 (172853)
01-01-2005 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by umliak
01-01-2005 6:16 PM


Re: His negativity will not close the thread
You really aren't reading anything anyone writes, are you? You didn't say "I believe that speaking in tongues is a real language". You asserted as fact that it is. That's the difference I and others have been trying to get through to you. If it is a fact, it can be objectivelly and materially proven to be.
You have not done that, you have not withdrawn the claim, and you apparently fail to see the difference between a belief and a fact.
The claim you made was that glossallia (sp?) is a real language and you have provided as evidence:
1. You saying that you think it is.
2. A webpage where others say they think it is.
Do you see the problems with that or does it honestly escape you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by umliak, posted 01-01-2005 6:16 PM umliak has not replied

mikehager
Member (Idle past 6498 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 133 of 155 (172854)
01-01-2005 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by umliak
01-01-2005 7:44 PM


harracit harracit
And I go "harracit harracit". Does that prove anything?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by umliak, posted 01-01-2005 7:44 PM umliak has not replied

mikehager
Member (Idle past 6498 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 136 of 155 (172888)
01-01-2005 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by umliak
01-01-2005 10:42 PM


Okay
Excuse me, but I believe I first accused you of not reading anything anyone writes. Do you think by continuing to copy off the things I say to you that you will somehow appear smarter?
Repeating you is the last thing I would do to attemtp to appear more intelligent then I am. Since being reprimanded by the admins, I have tried to be more polite with you. Don't go ruining it.
You alone asked for support and I gave you it.
In fear of repeating myself, I must say again that you did not.
The fact of the matter is, you asked for support on something I spoke regarding myself and my beliefs. Just because you have different objectives and viewpoints on matters doesn't mean I am in-tune with you. I am not your soulmate, I do not know your requirements for something to be considered a real language.
No, you never said "I believe 'tongues' is a real language." You asserted it as fact that it is. You must be able to support assertions, which you have never done (for reasons told to you repeatedly).
However, if you have been wanting a definition of language, you should have asked. I would have been happy to suggest one. That is the responsibility of a debator. I ask for support of an assertion, you give it. In that process, you feel the need to know exactly what I mean by a term, I give it. See how that works? I offer this, from the American Heritage Dictionary:
Language, a noun meaning:
a. Communication of thoughts and feelings through a system of arbitrary signals, such as voice sounds, gestures, or written symbols.
b. Such a system including its rules for combining its components, such as words.
c. Such a system as used by a nation, people, or other distinct community; often contrasted with dialect.
If tongues is spoken by people, and I have texts telling me it is a real language, and then people turn to me and tell me it isn't real, it's gibberish, then I have the right to then turn and say it is real.
You certainly do, if that is your opinion. If you claim it to be a fcat, as you have done, then you must be able to support your position.
If I do not, then I am now requesting you provide factual evidence that tongues is gibberish, beyond faith, or otherwise withdraw your claims. It's a two-way street buddy. Before being overlyconfident, I would suggest you evaluate your own claims.
I never made a claim. I asked you to support one you made. What you are doing here is called "shifting the burden of proof", a common fallacy. Saying "Prove I'm wrong" is not support of a position.
Therefore I demand now respect for my beliefs, unless you admit your demands are selfish and wrong.
How is it selfish, wrong, or disrespectful to ask for an assertion to be defended in a debate? The answer is that it isn't. You may not like it but I can't help that. Just because you think something is no reason to accept it as fact, Umliak.
You have provided absolutely no proof of tongues not being a real language, nor gibberish. Nor have you provided proof there is no God, so I will demand proof of your claims. I also demand proof and support that the Bible is not archaeologically accurate, nor scientifically accurate in anyway.
Otherwise withdraw all your claims as you have enslaved me to do.
You are really, really ticked off by the fact that you can't win on this speaking in tongues thing, aren't you? Well, take a break from moving those goalposts. I will be happy to get into it with you on any of those points, but first you're going to have to demonstrate that you have learned how to debate. The way to do that is to either withdraw your clain that "tongues" is a real language or provide real evidence for it. Show me that and we might be able to discuss something else.
No amount of shifting or dodging is going to work. The subject will not be changed and you will not shift the burden of proof onto me. Put up or shut up.
And nobody can tell me I'm wrong here, because the fact is the basis of religion is that those who believe it consider it fact by nature. Therefore if unreligious people consider something unfactual by nature, I see no reason why those who are religious should have to conform to unreligious beliefs. That in itself is oppressive of religion and is one-sided, and I hope now you see my point, as I am making myself clearer.
I've been trying to get this point across, and I think now I have used the right words.
No, I don't think you've used the right words, because I'm not sure I understand this. No matter. We can save it for later, once you have dispensed with this speaking in tongues business.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by umliak, posted 01-01-2005 10:42 PM umliak has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by umliak, posted 01-02-2005 12:37 AM mikehager has replied

mikehager
Member (Idle past 6498 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 143 of 155 (172914)
01-02-2005 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by umliak
01-02-2005 12:27 AM


Re: If you consider it FACT
Backtalked you? Backtalked you? I am stunned that you have the nerve to say that.
Do you understand the difference between a personal belief and a fact? That is a rhetorical question, really, because it's clear you don't. That's the problem I think. I suggest you get yourself a little more education and maybe read up on logic and similar matters.
This message has been edited by mikehager, 01-02-2005 00:38 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by umliak, posted 01-02-2005 12:27 AM umliak has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by umliak, posted 01-02-2005 12:47 AM mikehager has not replied

mikehager
Member (Idle past 6498 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 147 of 155 (172919)
01-02-2005 12:47 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by umliak
01-02-2005 12:37 AM


Re: Okay
Wow. You stun me again with your ignorance and misunderstanding. I was providing the reason that I don't believe your assertion in the process of challenging it. Note that I said I could be wrong and invited you to provide evidence. Why does this simple point seem to be so far beyond you? You made the claim. You have to support it. You have no reason to expect others to believe something because you do, unless there is evidence.
On a personal note, you would be well served to not start a by calling me decietful and a liar and then ask to be traeted decently. Believe me, this message is far better treatment then you deserve. Also, this is neither unfair or selfish. I am simply holding you to the same standards I hold myself and everyone else. It's not my fault that the standards of reason seem unfair to you.
Unfair... what an amazing claim. How terrible of me to ask someone to give me more reason to think something then their word.
Again, no more ducking, dodging or weaving. Stop whining and do something. Either support your position or admit that what you claimed simply isn't a fact.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by umliak, posted 01-02-2005 12:37 AM umliak has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by umliak, posted 01-02-2005 12:52 AM mikehager has replied

mikehager
Member (Idle past 6498 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 150 of 155 (172922)
01-02-2005 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by umliak
01-02-2005 12:46 AM


Again, no you didn't.
That little webpage you cited was as far from being a peer reviewed publication as I can imagine. Try looking up "peer reviewed"
Also, I think I can safely say that your attempts to "preach the word" only served to alienate people from whatever your idea of it is. Note that the preceeding sentence is a PERSONAL BELIEF and not a FACT, since you can't seem to tell the difference.
This message has been edited by mikehager, 01-02-2005 00:54 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by umliak, posted 01-02-2005 12:46 AM umliak has not replied

mikehager
Member (Idle past 6498 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 151 of 155 (172925)
01-02-2005 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by umliak
01-02-2005 12:52 AM


Re: Okay
You start slinging insults and assume I will be reprimanded? Perhaps I will. We'll see.
AGain, and rest assured I will say this forever. I never made a claim. I responded to one. Please do the right thing and support or withdraw.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by umliak, posted 01-02-2005 12:52 AM umliak has not replied

mikehager
Member (Idle past 6498 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 153 of 155 (172934)
01-02-2005 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by umliak
01-02-2005 1:03 AM


Withdrew?
Did you? It is spossible I missed it. So you admit that "speaking in tongues" being a real language is not a fact?
I will leave the subject of my ignorance to others to judge.
Also, I never ignored you. I merely refused to move on to anything new until you had correctly dealt with the whole tongues point. If you are admitting it is not a fact then you have finally properly dealt with it.
Congratulations.
However, if I am wrong and you are not making that admisson, then I will still feel it my duty to try and get you to deal properly with the question. This I do in spite of your unwillingness to debate in good faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by umliak, posted 01-02-2005 1:03 AM umliak has not replied

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