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Author | Topic: Did They Write About Jesus in the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms? | |||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3487 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:You missed the mark again. Manipulating the scripture doesn't show that one should follow the spirit vs the letter. They nullified the letter of God's word for their own tradition. That is my contention with Faith posts.
quote:No he wasn't. He was lambasting them for making up rules that served no spiritual purpose and not sticking to the letter of God's word. They were following the letter of their own words. Instead of following the letter of the word as in honoring mother and father, they manipulated the words to suit their own purpose.
quote:Greatest doesn't mean only. quote:The foundation for the rules doesn't negate the rules. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
purpledawn writes: I agree! I would only add that following the rules can never be accomplished through "trying". The rules can never be done perfectly. The foundation for the rules doesn't negate the rules.That is why Christianity believes in a perfect leader that alone followed ALL of the rules perfectly. Following Christ is not about trying to be a Holy Theocrat! Following Christ is about trusting God. Knowing and communing with Him. Allowing Him to purify your heart, and then joyfully living a life unto Him. Not religiously, but practically.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The site you use as your source is not even evidence. It is simply more Anti-Semitic rhetoric. Sorry Faith but that seems like a great example of the dishonesty of the Christians, not of any fault of the Jews. And it certainly has nothing to do with the Jews at the time of Christ.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
There were only the original apostles chosen personally by Jesus. Why do you exclude the second wave of (IIRC) fifty that were sent out? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: He was born in Tarsus in what is now Turkey, in a Diaspora city rather than in Judea, and knew Greek and much about Greek culture, as most Jews did at the time, but he was as Jewish as they get, having been taught by Gamaliel, a well known Pharisee. He was not "influenced" by anything Greek, however. Everything he teaches is based on the Hebrew Bible. I suppose this answer should have been to Arachnophilia. Oh well. This message has been edited by Faith, 04-19-2005 10:36 AM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: Not "assuming" -- it's in the NT. As jar even seems to say, Jesus' objection to the Pharisees' Sabbath rules was an objection to the Talmudic teachings on the Sabbath.
quote: You are wrong. The Church agreed that the epistles were inspired by God.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: Again, the Mormons are not mainstream, they are considered a heresy by the mainstream -- evangelical -- Christian churches. The Pope has to be called mainstream, yes, but again the evangelical churches consider him a heresy too.
quote: You don't know the New Testament if you exclude Paul. He is clearly an apostle. This message has been edited by Faith, 04-19-2005 10:44 AM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: So says the self-appointed scholar of scripture. Have you spoken directly with God about this? Because Paul did, and what he teaches in the New Testament is GOD's interpretation of the Hebrew scriptures which the Jews did not understand. Jesus' was continually upbraiding the Pharisees for their lack of understanding of their own scriptures.Paul taught what Jesus Himself showed Him. You make the BIG mistake of following false Jewish teaching. You are following letter rather than spirit, flesh rather than spirit.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: First, are you conceding that the passage does not have two referents after all? If so, we can proceed: Second, the part that I have been referring to is the virgin birth of a child to be known as "God with us." That's the entire part of the prophecy I've been referring to. Jesus fulfilled it. The rest contains a lot of reference to Ahaz' time and some mixture of messianic reference also. I recommend that you read a good Christian commentary if you'd like to understand the whole thing. It's not my job to educate you.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Jesus teaches on this all the time, though it turns out it is Paul who uses the actual terms "letter" versus "spirit."
Jesus' teaching in the entire chapter of Matthew 23 is all about the Pharisee's literal external obedience to made up rules while ignoring the spiritual meaning of God's law. Here is some of it:
23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. 24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! 25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and *self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also. 27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. 29 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say, 'If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.' Paul uses the words letter and spirit in these passages:
Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter. 2Cr 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: The point is that the TALMUD is NOT the Old Testament, it is a COMMENTARY on the Old Testament, and the Jews always followed the Talmud and NOT the teachings of God in the OT. The TALMUD taught the LETTER OVER THE SPIRIT. It is the TALMUD that taught the misuse of God's law. It is the TALMUD that added all the burdensome rules that were not in keeping with God's spirit. This message has been edited by Faith, 04-19-2005 11:05 AM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: He upbraided the Pharisees over and over again for following rules that were in the Oral Law. That's how we know how Jesus regarded the Oral Law.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3487 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:I never claimed that it had two. There was one child born to a young woman as a sign to Ahaz for the prophecy that followed. quote:So now you are splitting the prophecy. Where does God show that prophecies are to be split in this manner? quote:It is your job to support your claim. I've seen nothing in the Bible that supports splitting prophecy as you have done. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: It looked like an odd site to me, like something cultish, but I didn't see that it was anti-semitic. However, I believe it is right about the Talmud and I see nothing odd or anti-semitic about that. Why is there a problem with this reasoning: the Jews after all reject the claims that Jesus is God, and what are you going to believe about him as a mere man if it is claimed he was born of a virgin but that he must be a bastard? And what are you going to believe about a mere man who performs miracles but that he was merely a magician? And what are you going to believe about a mere man who died the death of a criminal on the cross? Certainly not that he was a perfect sinless man who died in the place of all us criminals to save us, right? It's about as straightforward a way of interpreting Jesus as a mere man as you can get. You are free to reject it however. As I said, it's controversial.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: Because the mainstream evangelical church only recognizes as apostles the original twelve plus Paul.
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