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Originally posted by John Paul:
edge:
Let me get this straight. If I have faith my Subaru will get me to work in the morning (and believe me, it does take a leap of faith) that this is a religion? Hey, it matches your definition.
John Paul:
I don't understand where faith is involved in your Subaru. Either it functions or it doesn't.
You obviously don't know my car. See, I can't PROVE that it will even start. I have faith that it will. And I can't PROVE that it doesn't burn oil instead of gasoline, either.
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edge:
You expand the definition so as to make it meaningless.
John Paul:
And evolutionists use false extrapolations to support their faith. Is that also meaningless?
How do you know they are false? Can you PROVE that they are?
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John Paul:
Great then let's see the experiment. No more hiding behind the time argument.
Evolution is tested countless times a day at all of the paleo digs around the world. We use micropaleontology to tell us where we are in an exploration well, AND to predict what is ahead. Face the facts, it works. If not, the oil companies would refuse to use it.
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edge:
We see it in the fossil record.
John Paul:
You see time in the fossil record? No, you just assume it took time to create the fossil record. Huge difference. You see what you want to see in the fossil record. It is a great example of "I wouldn't have seen it if I didn't believe it."
Sorry, but many geological processes are known. They take time. And yes, to a trained person the geological record reads like a history book.
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edge:
Well, it seems to have worked before.
John Paul:
Really? Have you read anything about Newton?
Newton denied that nature was responsible for the natural environment? He thought that god moved the planets, or what?
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edge:
We don't sacrifice virgins to the volcano gods any more, either.
John Paul:
That has to do with what exactly?
Well, people used to think that volcanos were not natural and were controlled by the gods. Sacrifices were supposed to appease them. Now, we know (well, some of us do) that natural processes explain eveything that we see in nature.
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However there is absolutely no evidence that life originated via purely natural processes.
edge:
You mean other than the fact that everything else has occurred by naturalistic processes?
John Paul:
That is nothing but a baseless assertion.
Good, then you can give us many clear cut examples of non-natural effects of non-natural processes in our environment.
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So without that evolutionists try to distance themselves from abiogenesis.
edge:
I have never heard any evolutionist refuse to discuss abiogenesis with you.
John Paul:
The point is evolutionists distance themselves from abiogenesis with statements such as 'How life started is not important. Evolution is after life was started.'
No, JP, we are just trying to help you understand the difference. We are usually glad to talk about it once that is cleared up. Numerous evolutionists have told you that there is a big difference in the evidence for evolution versus the evidence for abiogenesis.