Article: Religion and Science

But, it is our business, it is everyone's business in a civilised society to ensure that ALL children are safe and well looked after, including not being psychologically abused.Would you be happy for a parent to bring up their child, surrounding that child fromthe day they were born, in the belief that the child would have to kill themsleves the next time a comet passes by Earth? If that is all that the child ever hears and hears no contrary evidence, the child may well kill itself when the next comet appears. So we do have a responsibility to make sure our children are being well educated. And these same people recognise the right of the child! Go to the UINCEF website and find the Convention on the Right of the Child. Children are not the property of their parents, they are individual human beings with rights of their own.Why should children be brought up to follow their PARENTS faith? Hey, you could get suspended for that.Why do you always resort to personal abuse?But, as far as the 'history' contained n the Old Testament, there is hardly an historian or archaeologist on the planet that takes Genesis through Judges as being 100% accurate, including fundamentalist Christian historians and archaeologists such as Nahum Sarna.Brian.

Yes. It's called willful ignorance and you have shown repeatedly that you are committed to encouraging willful ignorance.How do you justify the right to teach children that 2 + 2 = 5?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

No parent believes that they have the right to abuse thier child in this way, no civilised society would allow it.A parent doesn't own a child, they cannot do what they like with that child.Dear God in heaven think about what you are saying.Brian.

Yeah, there's the Doublespeak of the Big Brother Totalitarian right there. There's the way people's rights are taken away by the arrogant pigheaded promoters of absolute power over the citizenry.

Brian,In the US physical, sexual, and emotional abuses as well as neglect of children are a well documented problem and in a very few cases this has a religious cast although in those cases I believe it's generally due to mental illnesses of the parents that take a form of religious mania such as trying to literally beat a "devil" out of child.Your notion of "psychological abuse" is one that seems to violate the separation of church and state and also naively assumes life should be fair. I have worked in a number of different schools that represented different demographics. One of the biggests factors for children are if there families are intact and functional. Socio economic and educational factors also have an impact. I've found far more behaviour , emotional, and learning problems when dealing with children from more chaotic families than with children from intact loving supportive families, and I'm not talking about anything that would qualify as abuse just differing levels of skillful child rearing and attention.When we mature most of us generally make changes to what we believed as children. To try and restrict freedom of religious expression in the US is something that would be found unacceptable to myself and most Americans. Nor given the truly life threatening problems of child abuse it makes no sense to lump "intellectual abuse" into child abuse.I know someone who was raised in a fundamentalist Christian tradition and taught there were demons out to trick him and evils were seen everywhere. He know longer believes that. His choice was to convert to Judaism. That wouldn't be my choice but as an adult he opted out of the religion he was raised in. We all might wish our childhoods were different in one way or another but we can't enforce our beliefs on others. I too would wish a good education for all children and the US doesn't do a good job of this. Some school have more money, better behaved groups of children, better teachers, etc than other schools. Some children are fortunate because of their parents and other unfortunate. We don't seem to have the resources to adequately deal with the really bad abuse.On the other hand there are community colleges and other access to education if someone wants to learn science or history etc. I don't think home schooling is generally a good idea but it can be very good in some circumstances, average in others, and sometimes, yes an educational disaster, but US schools are sometimes educational disasters.lfen

If you think it is your right to abuse a child psychologically then there is something far wrong with you.You haven't lost any right here, because no one has the right to do what you are saying.Brian.

You are the abuser, you are the twister of truth, you are the maker- up of accusations against innocent people, you are the oppressor.If you want me suspended for my posts about you on this topic I would remind you and all Admins that your posts against Bible believers and me personally are truly personal character assassination in a way that mine are not.Be that as it may, if I am suspended for my righteous fury at you, you and Crashfrog both should be suspended for your personal attacks on my character: My post on Brian's offensesWhere Crashfrog's personal remarks beginThis message has been edited by Faith, 06-23-2005 12:59 PM

What are you on about now?Brian.

Message 61:

Thank you, well put.Reality is messy. Utopian micromanagement always leads to great evil for that reason. Nobody has a right to put his beliefs over others, even his absolute belief in 2+2=4.

The issue is not about Home Schooling, in fact I believe that education is always dependent on the home, the public schools are simply a matter of resource sharing. The issue is whether it is moral to teach things that are simply wrong. For example, teaching that the earth and universe are only 6000 years old is simply wrong. Teaching that mankind is the result of some magic trick instead of a product of a long evolutionary history is simply wrong.Is it right to teach children things that are factually wrong?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Oh right That was a joke, lighten up chica.Brian.

We teach them about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and then later reveal that it was a compassionate lie. Many of the parents teaching factual errors believe it. Remember when the government agencies were pushing margarine over butter? And now it turns out the transfats in mararine are far worse than the natural saturated fats in butter.What is factual does change. I strongly oppose teaching ID in public schools. Oregon allows home schooling. I've known children to be successfully home schooled for a number of reasons none related to religion, but I don't want the government to interfere to that extent. Is it right for a child to have a Daddy who leaves his family, tells his child he is going to visit on a vacation and then cancels at the last minute? No way. I don't approve of much of the religious teaching going on, but no way am I going to advocate interfering with it unless as in the case of Christian Science it is putting a child at grave risk of dying or suffering horribly. There are far worse things to overcome than being taught the earth is 6000 years old. People even on this list have testified they believed that and changed their beliefs just as people have testified they believed science but converted to YEC. It's simply not an issue I want the government enforcing. There are lots of rights and wrongs that the government either can't enforce or shouldn't enforce.lfen

Get serious.

Whew, sanity on the enemy side yet. Thank you again.