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Author
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Topic: Why is Faith a Virtue?
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Re: BACK TO TOPIC, WHY IS FAITH A VIRTUE?
What you've seen is their evolutionist assumptions and interpretations attacked, not their actual facts.
Okay then. How could they possibly be facts if they conflict with your faith? As I just said, the facts don't conflict, only the interpretations.
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Chief Infidel
Inactive Member
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Message 257 of 294 (335808)
07-27-2006 5:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 256 by Faith
07-27-2006 5:15 PM
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Re: BACK TO TOPIC, WHY IS FAITH A VIRTUE?
I think you're proving my point. Also, do you have an answer to the question I asked in post 251? Is there anything that could convince you that you are wrong in your faith? Edited by Chief Infidel, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 256 by Faith, posted 07-27-2006 5:15 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 258 by robinrohan, posted 07-27-2006 5:31 PM | | Chief Infidel has not replied | | | Message 259 by Faith, posted 07-27-2006 5:52 PM | | Chief Infidel has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Re: BACK TO TOPIC, WHY IS FAITH A VIRTUE?
Is there anything that could convince you that you are wrong in your faith? Is there anything that could convince you that you are wrong in YOUR faith--I mean your moral faith, whatever it is. I'm sure there's plenty of it.
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Re: BACK TO TOPIC, WHY IS FAITH A VIRTUE?
Also, do you have an answer to the question I asked in post 251? No. Will not entertain such a choice. Certainly would do my best to assure that neither happened.
Is there anything that could convince you that you are wrong in your faith? Not the basics, but particular aspects of it certainly. I read a lot of Christian books and hear a lot of sermons and always learn something. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 260 of 294 (335843)
07-27-2006 7:08 PM
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Reply to Schraf--faith and virtue
Not Faith. Trust. Statistically, if I go to the doctor regularly, chances are that I will catch problems, should they arise, early and be able to have them taken care of in a way that will not hinder my life and will preserve my health and longevity. I don't like going to the doctor at all. But I like being healthy, feeling great every day, and I want to keep doing so for as long as possible. I also have family. I know they want me to live a long and healthy life, so I also go because of them. That is not quite the point. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, I've always been irresponsible. No point in changing now! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why not? I don't feel like it. But here's the main point. Your idea contains an implied moral--"Thou shalt be responsible"--and I'm sure you realize that all moral rules are subjective. So let's examine the truth-value of your opinion. Being subjective, it has two possibilities as regards truth-value. 1. Your implication that one should be responsible in the sense of maintaining one's health means that you really think one should be responsible or you don't. Let's say you really think that. 2. Your implication that one should be responsible in the sense of maintaining one's health is either true or false generally, apart from whether you really think it or not. What evidence do you have for this moral dictum? You have none, since subjective evidence doesn't count. So here we get to my point that faith is a virtue. You gotta believe!
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 262 by nator, posted 07-27-2006 7:27 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 261 of 294 (335846)
07-27-2006 7:24 PM
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Reply to: Message 238 by Faith
07-27-2006 2:13 PM
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Re: "Hearsay"
quote:
Strictly a bit of Leftist political correctness.
No, it is a direct quote from someone in the Bush administration. He was using it as an arrogant, derogatory term:
The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality”judiciously, as you will”we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do." Oh, and are you ever going to explain why, in a Leftist-controlled media, most of the participants on the three major networks' Sunday political discussion shows are conservatives or Republicans? Edited by schrafinator, : kan't sple
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 238 by Faith, posted 07-27-2006 2:13 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Re: Reply to Schraf--faith and virtue
Neither of your two rather confusing explanations fit. One should be responsible with taking care of one's health because the (statiscically-based) consequences of doing otherwise will likely affect others in a detrimental way, and these negative consequences are preventable.
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 263 of 294 (335850)
07-27-2006 7:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 262 by nator
07-27-2006 7:27 PM
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Re: Reply to Schraf--faith and virtue
One should be responsible with taking care of one's health because the (statiscically-based) consequences of doing otherwise will likely affect others in a detrimental way, and these negative consequences are preventable. Why should I care?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 262 by nator, posted 07-27-2006 7:27 PM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 264 by nator, posted 07-27-2006 7:33 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Re: Reply to Schraf--faith and virtue
quote:
Why should I care?
If you care about nothing; neither about yourself, nor about anyone else, then you shouldn't care about being responsible about your health. But then I'd have to suspect that you are deeply, dangerously, clinically depressed.
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 265 of 294 (335852)
07-27-2006 7:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 264 by nator
07-27-2006 7:33 PM
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Re: Reply to Schraf--faith and virtue
But then I'd have to suspect that you are deeply, dangerously, clinically depressed. Can't you recognize your MORALISM in all this?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 264 by nator, posted 07-27-2006 7:33 PM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 266 by nator, posted 07-27-2006 7:41 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Re: Reply to Schraf--faith and virtue
quote:
Can't you recognize your MORALISM in all this?
Sure. It's a morality based upon how one's actions affect others. ...but there's no faith involved. Just math.
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 267 of 294 (335856)
07-27-2006 7:44 PM
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Reply to: Message 266 by nator
07-27-2006 7:41 PM
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Re: Reply to Schraf--faith and virtue
It's a morality based upon how one's actions affect others.
Yes, and if I say, why should I care, your only answer is that I am insane? Don't you see that you are begging the question? You have to prove that "Thou shalt be responsible" is a correct moral dictum. It's impossible to do so. It's a matter of FAITH.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 266 by nator, posted 07-27-2006 7:41 PM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 268 by nator, posted 07-27-2006 7:53 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Re: Reply to Schraf--faith and virtue
quote:
Yes, and if I say, why should I care, your only answer is that I am insane? Don't you see that you are begging the question?
No. I told you that if you didn't care about yourself, nor anyone else, then it was perfectly natural to not care about taking care of one's health. Lack of such care for oneself and others, however, IS a common symptom of clinical depression. Also, people who are not depressed, by contrast, generally DO care about themselves, others, their own health, and also the health of others for that matter. There is no moral judgement involved.
quote:
You have to prove that "Thou shalt be responsible" is a correct moral dictum.
It is correct only in that it enables people to live together in societies. It is practical.
quote:
It's impossible to do so.
I never said it was absolute, only that it happens to be very practical and useful and effective within human societies. By all means, don't care a whit about yourself or anyone else if that's what you really (don't) feel. Just realize that there are some pretty notable social and physical penalties to incur by doing so.
quote:
It's a matter of FAITH.
No, it isn't.
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 269 of 294 (335984)
07-28-2006 8:07 AM
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Reply to: Message 268 by nator
07-27-2006 7:53 PM
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Re: Reply to Schraf--faith and virtue
It is correct only in that it enables people to live together in societies. Why should I care if people "live together in societies" or not? Why shouldn't I just care about me? All you can reply is, in so many words, "You ought to care." A moral dictum. Based on Faith in the unprovable correctness of that dictum.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 268 by nator, posted 07-27-2006 7:53 PM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 270 by nwr, posted 07-28-2006 8:20 AM | | robinrohan has replied | | | Message 286 by nator, posted 07-28-2006 5:37 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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nwr
Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 5.3
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Re: Reply to Schraf--faith and virtue
Why should I care if people "live together in societies" or not?
Because your own life is highly dependent on society.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 271 by robinrohan, posted 07-28-2006 10:28 AM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied |
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