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Author Topic:   Revealing the Truth to People (false signs and wonders)
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 1 of 25 (355821)
10-11-2006 7:58 AM


In another thread, we are discussing supernatural events.
Supernatural events
With all the shams of preachers, i.e. gemstones from heaven, green miracle rags, orbs in pictures, and the gullability of people, folks are believing this stuff.
Being a seeker of truth, and exactly what God wants us to be, this concerns me.
Nobody wants to reveal these fakes more than me, and I have no problem telling others. my Pastor, the congregation, whatever. But it's been told to me, that I may not be correct in doing this. I was told I could be letting peoples hopes down.
I say what's the sense of having false hope?
What do you guys think I should do about it?
Should I continue revealing the truth?
If so, whats the best way of going about this?
Do I have a right to mess with what people believe in?
Oh, and BTW, it is something I have prayed about for some time now. At a conference of about 500 people, this guy at the very end ( I was there 3 days) started showing us pictures with orbs, and anomalys, saying it was spirits from God. I knew it wasn't. An overwelming feeling of anger came over me, and I prayed right there on the spot. The answer I felt I got was, if you run into this guy, then tell him what you know.
We were leaving in 10 minutes, so I didn't think was going to happen. We walked out early to get a head start back home, and on the way out, I bumped into...you got it, the guy. My wife was with me. I proceeded to tell him all that I knew about orbs in pictures, and he looked like a kid that just dropped his ice cream cone. By that look I knew he honestly thought they were real. He also mentioned that he had a newspaper photographer tell him that they were unexplainable and were probably real. So he did make an attempt at trying to confirm that they were real. He gave me his email, and I emailed him all that I knew about it. I did not recive a response, so I don't know what happened after that, I am dying to find out.
I was concerned because this guy teaches courses on integrety, and I don't want people who are smart to think he doesn't have integrety, and possibly stop looking for God based on this crap. The thought of false idles comes to mind also.
I even wrote to that Patricia King about her little video on orbs.
(Patricia King's website is the one hosting the video about the gemstones)
Yes, I am fustrated.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by nwr, posted 10-11-2006 9:18 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 4 by nyenye, posted 10-11-2006 9:36 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 5 by jar, posted 10-11-2006 12:03 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 7 by ramoss, posted 10-11-2006 12:53 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 21 by iceage, posted 10-12-2006 2:40 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 8 of 25 (355959)
10-11-2006 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by nyenye
10-11-2006 9:36 AM


I would imagine, orbs in photographs are usually dust; do you have the pics,
Yes, it is dust, coupled with the wavelength of llight that CCd chips are capable of picking up. Also poor quality lenses( with chromatic aberrations), and bad exposures with flash, that create all these kinds of effects.
I have already debunked ever photo like this I have ever seen, and re-create the effects at will. Even the manufactures of the cameras themsselves have information on their web-sites explaining it.
Anyways orbs are nothing more than energy from spirits or energy in general.
There is no evidence of orbs, at all.
Not saying that it's not a message from God, but think about it and let me know.
No, I do not think it is a message from God, at all.
Faith does not come from a shiney ornament it comes from the heart and soul, your foundation!
I agree.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by nyenye, posted 10-11-2006 9:36 AM nyenye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by nyenye, posted 10-12-2006 8:04 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 9 of 25 (355960)
10-11-2006 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by nwr
10-11-2006 9:18 AM


Re: Change churches
My advice would be to find a church less willing to condone these sorts of practices.
The head Pastor of my church completely agrees with me, and immediatly stopped showing pictures of orbs, once I presented him the facts.
It's the other people in the church that are being gullable. I am slightly fearful of telling them it's fake.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by nwr, posted 10-11-2006 9:18 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by jar, posted 10-11-2006 6:17 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 16 of 25 (356116)
10-12-2006 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
10-11-2006 6:17 PM


Re: Change churches
The problem is that he just stopped using that example. He did NOT speak out to the members and tell them the truth, and did not start a class and sermons on critical thinking and bullshit detection.
I should have said so, but he did speak out, the very next week and explain that it was assumed fake.
He's really good, I know you would like him. They actually have a consulting business where they go and try to fix screwd up churches, sometimes for free, (well we pay for it), free to that church. He is world reknown in what he does. He is emphatic about knowing the truth about things, and Jesus.
Believe me, I wouldn't be going there if it was any different. I have been to dozens of churches and never seen anything I liked.
But the fact, or the evidence that leads me to think these things are fake do have 2 sides to it, that is why I am bringing to discussion.
I guess a good question is, should it be the churches job to teach people science?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by jar, posted 10-11-2006 6:17 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 10-12-2006 9:34 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 18 by jar, posted 10-12-2006 9:42 AM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 20 by ramoss, posted 10-12-2006 2:17 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 19 of 25 (356123)
10-12-2006 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Phat
10-12-2006 9:34 AM


Re: Change churches
Our website isn't the best. We have a discussion forum, where My pastor attempts to start a blog. He's been keeping up with it so far.
http://www.clcnj.org
http://www.agleadershipservices.com/default.asp
That is the web-site for his business.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 10-12-2006 9:34 AM Phat has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 22 of 25 (356264)
10-13-2006 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by ramoss
10-12-2006 2:17 PM


Re: Change churches
Your pastor sounds like an honest fellow, and a good egg. Good for him.
I don't think churches need to teach about science per say. However, it might be good for people to be taught that not every preacher that goes around passing a collection plate for the poor is actually a 'brother in Christ', and might be using people's faith for personal gain. Look at Jim Baker, Dr. Gene Scott (now deceased), and a variety of other televangalists? Many are very wealthy men , at the expense of the people who donate money for charitable works. So much of that goes to the personal weath of the televangalist, rather than the good works that were promised it would go to. This is particulary true of those frauds that use faith healing, since relying on that can be a matter of life and death.
It's that whole statement and accurate representation of what is, that reminds me of the verse: narrow is the road to heaven. That verse becomes true when you examine all the facts.
It's my desire to be a man after God's true heart, and to be a representative of the truth. Then to spread that truth to those around me. I feel like I am in training.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by ramoss, posted 10-12-2006 2:17 PM ramoss has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 23 of 25 (356265)
10-13-2006 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by iceage
10-12-2006 2:40 PM


Re: I am on it
Make up a report with pictures the pictures from ebay, and go right to the top Pastor there with it. Tell him if he doesn't resolve the issue, then you'll go to the news with it.
Just a thought. Thanks for pursuing this. If you expose them as fakes, then you are actually doing work for the kingdom of God, IMO. I pray that God would bless you for it, whether you believe or not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by iceage, posted 10-12-2006 2:40 PM iceage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by iceage, posted 10-13-2006 2:48 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 25 of 25 (356452)
10-14-2006 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by iceage
10-13-2006 2:48 PM


Re: I am on it
Yep, I sent her an email about the orbs, in detail explaining all I know. I highly doubt I will recieve a reply.
Either one of two things is at work here (or more).
1 She is an absolute fraud
2 She really believes this stuff, and doesn't want her own faith disrupted.
People are desparate to see signs and wonders.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by iceage, posted 10-13-2006 2:48 PM iceage has not replied

  
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