Faith and belief

I am surprised at the intensity of this discussion. This was intended to promote thinking outside of the conventional box. But it seems you all need to put me in there and I ain't going.I cannot answer scientific questions but be assured I don't draw my conclusions from heresay. My knowledge and understanding comes from self awareness and awareness of others, a life lived and observed.I've watched and studied and listened and questioned and analized til I'm blue in the face. I stand by the idea that we have internal power\energy fueled by beliefs and faith in those beliefs that manifest within our humanity.Given that the belief in a one god must be the most powerful of all because of shheer numbers, then it must be possible for that belief to either manifest god or bring god to our awareness in a form we can all recognize.Edited by dameeva, : No reason given.

Rob, I really don't understand your motives for some things you say. Why would you say you were not trying to mock me? Do you normally mock people? It never entered my head but it did yours. Similarly, why did you think that I may not tell the truth so as to spare your feelings? Is that also what you do? I mention these as your perception of my concepts are clouded right there before we start.
Have you heard of projection of self? That's what you are doing, even though they have nothing to do with the topic and seem insignificant, those thoughts are influencing your perception of me and whatever I say. I can't get through that.
Maybe this is why you appear to be taking some things out of context. E.G I did not say potential was causing angst and confusion but the fact that we have never known anything like it before. The point I was making was the spiritual era is bringing it's own chaos.Rob, can you sum all this up that you are addressing and tell me in more concise terms what it is you think I am advocating? From my point of view I am not in agreement or opposition to anyone.
I will reread your post and try to figure it out but I cannot address every point you have made. It just takes us further away from the topic. thanks

Rob, I don't see projection of self the way you do. I was merely observing your feelings which had nothing whatsoever to do with god but everything to do with your perception. It's human. I really think you are taking offense, unless it's me?
Are you defending your faith and belief in the god of the bible? Do you feel I am attacking your beliefs? I am genuinely confused with your responses.

Are you thinking we have to 'see' god with our eyes in order to recognize him? There has never been a physical human god and anyone claiming to be god will be cruxified, we know that. So how do you expect to see him? This was my initial query, from the beliefs held about god including the image one holds of god, how would god manifest in a form we could all recognize? When I say ALL, I mean believers and non-believers.
I reached this line of enquiry by suspending all my childhood beliefs of god and imagined the core essences of god. God all powerful, all knowing, all loving and creator of all things. These are 'godly' qualities.
They exclude judgement, anger, control, abuse, exploitation, punishment, reward and all the other human traits that do not fit the essence of godliness.
I am searching for a god whose presence is permanent and available to be experienced within the reality of humanity at any time. A constant that stands alone, that cannot be other than itself. Will the real god please stand up?It is theory with little physical evidence I am presenting with the intention of promoting new ideas and concepts from open mindedness. I find the old and current beliefs of the human potential and god are unsatisfactory. They do not enhance the quality of life.

Are you thinking we have to 'see' god with our eyes in order to recognize him? There has never been a physical human god and anyone claiming to be god will be cruxified, we know that. So how do you expect to see him? This was my initial query, from the beliefs held about god including the image one holds of god, how would god manifest in a form we could all recognize? When I say ALL, I mean believers and non-believers.I reached this line of enquiry by suspending all my childhood beliefs of god and imagined the core essence of god. God all powerful, all knowing, all loving and creator of all things. These are 'godly' qualities.They exclude judgement, anger, control, punishment, reward and all the other human traits that do not fit the essence of godliness.I am searching for a god whose presence is permanent and available to be experienced within the reality of humanity at any time. A constant that stands alone, that cannot be other than itself. Will the real god please stand up?It is mostly theory I am presenting with the intention of promoting new ideas and concepts from open mindedness. I find the old and current beliefs of the human potential and god are unsatisfactory and by expanding these beliefs there is a possibility of enhancing the quality of life for the whole of the human race. Amen to that.

My sentiments exactly. Whoa. I think it's a bit dodgy discussing faith, belief and god as one subject at the moment. I think it would be great if we could reach a common understanding of faith and belief, without needing it to be in god. Just faith and belief as aspects of humanity that we all possess.

Your reply appears to me as cynical and dismissive. You do not discuss any point I make. You take things out of context and put words in my mouth. All I see are comments from a narrow view point, void of logic that aren't worth debating. Have you nothing interesting to say? Ah well, whatever makes you happy. God luck to you too.

I still don't get your point! Have you got one?

Ah Rob, so you do mock me but perhaps it is not your intention, or even if you are aware that you do so.I understand what you are saying. I understand the wheel, the spokes, the death to extremists, the non-worshipping, the god of the bible. I don't dispute a word you say but I don't know why you feel the need to defend your position and dispute mine without question. Everything you said had no connection to my proposal. A different subject entirely.My intention was purely to open a new line of enquiry, not to discuss if we create our life experiences but how? The only testing ground for this is with the observing of oneself.I do believe there is only one way to enlightenment (for want of a better word) or god and that is 'your own' way. Although our paths radically differ, we have one thing in common and that is our humanity. To see another on a different path to your own and fully understand it, is to take a leap forward for humanity.For some unknown reason, I chose the road less travelled. The one wise men fear to tread. If I had been wise I would not have gone there. I would have taken the pills and lived a life of quiet desparation instead. I fought long and hard and suffered in the depths of despair to come through to the other side and I don't appreciate you taking the piss. ok

Only 'one way' is from a huge choice but the decision is the for the individual. The path each of us choose is the only way for us, even if that means changing religions or how we percieve god. No matter what that path entails it will be unique.This is how I perceive it to be, whether or not we hold the same beliefs and follow the same traditions , it will still be unique.
I found every group or religion or movement each had some form of exclusivity attached, be it in a very subtle form.What have morals got to do with faith and belief in god? Do I have to believe in the same god as you and then I will have good moral standards? Is that not exclusivity?

Who said anything about obligation? It is the NATURE of change. How else do you think we got into this mess?
I would eat the biscuit if I was you.

Anastasia, if you read my first post you would clearly see that I am asking a question of who god is. "How would god manifest?" If I knew who or what god is or represents, I wouldn't be asking.
You appear to disagree with my definitions of godliness but don't offer a reason. You just dismissed my opinion.The actual debate (as in discussion, not argument) was intended for those already experiencing manifestations from within and are also searching for more meaning e.g god but not only. The question was, 'how would the same energies that are manifesting in our lives would\could\are manifesting god'?You see the manifestations being experienced are not random. We know where our focus lies and we know of our belief system and we have faith in those beliefs. We know we have influence over those manifestations\experiences, but we also know it is the tip of the iceberg. There is much more to humanity than we ever dreamed of.That is where I intended to take this discussion. To see if collaboration of experiences could take us one step further.I do not want to be stuck in the past with old fashioned notions and outdated traditions. You stick to them if you want but I want to move on. We are in 2007 A.D.

[Adolf Hitler's path was certainly unique. But you embrace the beauty of him living out 'his reality'?]Oh good lord, where did adolph hitler come into this? Where is your head? However this is a perfect example of why we need to know others' unique paths. It is of no use ignoring others' paths that are different to our own. Understanding is the key to unite the whole of humanity. [What would be the point in finding God if it were not a 'good' thing?]
What a stupid question. Makes no more sense than asking, 'what would be the point in finding god if it was a bad thing'. Huh?????I really didn't know faith and belief were exlusive to god. I am referring to faith and belief as energies not as moral codes or ways of being. Faith and belief manifest in our experiences whether or not you wish to believe it.I believe we are on the brink of discovery that will change the world for the whole of humanity and all you do is throw cold water on it. You non-believer!

Yes very funny. ha ha. I am amused. What era do your beliefs stem from?

If you have steadfast beliefs that cannot encpompass any other, why do you try to inflict yours on to me and dispute mine. Are you a politician?I'm not trying to make you change your beliefs so why can't you be tolerant of mine? I thought your religion taught tolerance? Do you interpret that as telling people nicely that their ideas are stupid? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha