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Author Topic:   Where Faith Comes From in the "moderate" Christian religions
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 103 of 132 (514014)
07-03-2009 7:42 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Peg
07-03-2009 7:08 AM


he might believe in God, but if he believes that evolution caused the great variety of life on earth, then can it be said that he believes the bible?
Thus proving that Christianity and biblolatry are two different things.
Did he miss Genesis Chpt 1 in theology school?
It is more likely that in theology school they taught him how to reconcile Genesis with reality.
Hey look, we briefly got back on topic!
---
the bacteria may behave that way, but it does not explain all life on earth.
No-one claimed that the behavior of bacteria explains all life on earth.
I would need to see one species produce a completely different species.
To see it personally? Or would you settle for observations made by others?
I would need to see life spring from the ground with not intervention required.
We call 'em plants. Green things, you must have noticed them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Peg, posted 07-03-2009 7:08 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Peg, posted 07-03-2009 8:07 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 105 of 132 (514016)
07-03-2009 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Peg
07-03-2009 7:27 AM


you can't observe evolution happening...apparently it happens over hundreds of thousands if not, millions of years. So, apart from Rrhains bacteria, how are you 'observing' evolution?
I didn't say we did. I said we observed evidence for evolution. Just as, for example, forensic scientists can prove that a man died from being shot without observing him being shot.
so are you saying that evolution disproves a creator?
No, of course not.
but not all scientists have ditched creation...many here claim to believe in God. And science does not always need direct observation (evolution) to believe something exists. Aastronomers have detected a number of planets orbiting distant stars. They havnt seen them, but they see how their gravity perturbs the motion of parent stars, hence they know they must exist...black holes being another example.
If related evidence and not direct observation is an adequate basis for scientists to accept what is invisible, why is that consideration not given to those who believe in a Creator.
Creationism can be judged on the same evidential standards as evolutionary biology. Indeed, it can be judged by reference to the same evidence. The difference is that the evidence is against creationism. That's how we know its rubbish.
By analogy, your question is like a guilty man complaining that he did not get the "same consideration" as a man found innocent by the same court. But they were both judged by the same standards --- the difference is that the guilty man was actually guilty.
Afterall, they use a similar basis for accepting what they cannot see.
This is, of course, not even remotely true.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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 Message 101 by Peg, posted 07-03-2009 7:27 AM Peg has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 107 of 132 (514018)
07-03-2009 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Peg
07-03-2009 7:45 AM


I've asked what direct observations are used ...
And you have been told that we observe the evidence for evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Peg, posted 07-03-2009 7:45 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Peg, posted 07-03-2009 8:08 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 111 of 132 (514025)
07-03-2009 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Peg
07-03-2009 8:08 AM


but what specific observances are you referring to?
Observations of morphology, developmental biology, paleontology, genetics, biogeography, behavioral ecology, plus, of course, being able to watch evolution happening.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Peg, posted 07-03-2009 8:08 AM Peg has replied

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 Message 115 by Peg, posted 07-03-2009 8:53 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 112 of 132 (514026)
07-03-2009 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Peg
07-03-2009 8:17 AM


because there doesnt seem to be a clear cut answer. The scientific method 'was' at one time about observing and experimenting, now its simply observing and experiments are not always necessary ...
Experiments were never "always necessary". Science has never worked like that.
Yet some say that evolution can be reproduced in a lab, others say you cant directly observe it, others say its the fossil evidence that proves it (of which there are huge gaps)
No-one says that you can't directly observe it. They say that you can't directly observe all the evolution that has ever happened.
The fossil record is indeed an important source of evidence for evolution. The gaps in it that creationists have taught you to complain about are, of course, not evidence against it, since the theory of evolution does not predict that there should be no gaps in the fossil record.
Also, why is it perfectly acceptable for science to have beliefs in things they cannot see based on indirect observations, yet creationists cannot?
Because there are no observations that support creationism.
This is confusing to me, its like saying, I can use this tool to prove my point, but you cannot use it to prove yours.
Yeah, it's like saying: "I can use arithmetic to prove that two and two is four, but you can't use it to prove that two plus two is five."
Well, you can't. This is because two and two is actually four. The same methods would be open to someone maintaining that 2 + 2 = 5 as to someone maintaining that 2 + 2 = 4, but the use of these same methods would only prove one of them right.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Peg, posted 07-03-2009 8:17 AM Peg has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 114 of 132 (514031)
07-03-2009 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Peg
07-03-2009 8:07 AM


that just shows that theology school isnt concerned with faith, it does not attempt to produce faith. This would certainly explain why the church's are in such a bad way.
Still, I'd be willing to bet that the Pope has a larger congregation than you do.
I certainly dont believe evolution is a reality...i think it is another 'flat earth' philosophy that will give us something to laugh about in the near future.
And I hope that this futile daydream brings you comfort. It's been comforting reality-deniers for the last hundred and fifty years, after all. The faith that any day now someone will make some observation that will disprove evolution has been literally handed down from generation to generation.
And that is laughable right now.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Peg, posted 07-03-2009 8:07 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
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