What gives God the right to be "holy"?

One reason why I stopped being a Christian almost 20 years ago. Of all religions I've ever studied, this one would seem to take the cake for denigrating its followers. Believing that one needs saving from some kind of innate evil from birth is a depressingly negative view of the state of being human. So is being compelled to worship a personified narcissistic king in the sky for that matter. Think about it. Do you honestly believe that this is what spirituality is all about?

Pretty much the same thing. Human beings = wicked, sinning dirt. Look at what you've typed that expresses this. Let's take a hypothetical child who has two parents telling them systematically that they are never good enough and can never do anything right. Mix in a good dose of Christian guilt: "We are poor sinners who do not deserve to lick God's bootstraps." Result: pathological low self-esteem leading to difficulties in relationships, depression, addiction, and so on. Believe it because I've seen it. Do you think this is a healthy way for people to think about themselves? Actually I've never regretted freeing myself from the shackles of religion. My thoughts are more loving, wiser, happier, and more life-affirming. I have a spirituality of sorts but I don't believe that there's a person in the sky, and I also believe that it's entirely possible to be a loving and moral person without a religion telling one how. Like some others here have said, I do not believe "he" exists, so that's not a problem.Edited by Kitsune, : No reason given.

What Hooah said. But also, you're still saying that by the time a Christian is an adult, they should be believing that they are the unworthy dirt beneath God's feet. If you don't see how that can cause problems for people then I don't think I can clarify any further. I didn't say I did. I am training to be a counsellor. Religion brings a lot of people in.Besides, I said that this negative view of the state of being human was only one reason I stopped being religious. The main one was that I was introduced to the ideas of other religions, after years of insular learning about just my own. I also learned that the story of the flood has undeniably clear parallels with flood stories that went before it, such as the epic of Gilgamesh, which helped me to see that I had been taught to believe in a mythology rather than the exclusive "truth" that I'd been told my religion was. I now look at the theistic religions of the world and see that the real truth is something beyond them; otherwise you have the problem of trying to prove why Yaweh is more real than Odin or Vishnu or Zeus, with the adherents of the other religions arguing most zealously with you. This stuff about God being the celestial parent who punishes you if you do wrong is old -- and it's also bizarre, since what parent would sentence their child to everlasting torment, no matter what it is they've done? Personally I'm inclined to believe that we get reincarnated. Though I'd also be OK with the idea that we return to the cosmic energy from whence we came; I used to believe that too. And guess what? I can still behave myself without worrying that I'll go to hell if I don't. I think that anyone who wants people to worship them has got psychological problems.

Wow, all those Sunday schools had better close then. I was under the impression that my parents were raising me to believe in Christianity but I was obviously grossly mistaken. Oxymoron, little bit?
Presumably the "appropriate manner" means what you believe to be appropriate. You seem to be deeply confused. Throughout this thread you have been describing people as being hopeless sinners who have to be saved from their innate evil by the grace of God, and somehow this mythical primordial couple have caused us to be guilty before we're even born. Message 114
If you came to my door telling me that I'm going to hell and stating the above, I'd be inclined to tell you to sod off and take your philosophy of hate and guilt-tripping somewhere else. I wouldn't use those words because it's rude, but I'd find a way to quickly make you go away. My husband used to wear his "Hammer of the Gods" Led Zeppelin T-shirt when the Christians came recruiting; another effective rebuff (I've heard) is to say, "I'm gay."I don't need a concept of hell and I don't need "original sin" which needs atonement because while I am capable of treating people like shit, manipulating them, lying, stealing and so forth, I don't because I respect others. Would you rather your children acted kindly because they respected others, or because they feared your punishment if they didn't? Maybe . . . you might say that they grow out of the latter and into the former? Why are we still stuck with religions that treat people like children who can't tell right from wrong unless a parent is there to guide and punish? How patronising. A few guesses here. There are people who feel left out when the majority of their community has one belief and they have another. There are people lacking spirituality in their lives and who would like to find it. IMO there are many paths in this direction, though I have a feeling I know which one you would tell them to take if they don't want to go to hell. Somehow I doubt you'd suggest they read the Bhagavad Gita. Going astray in life does not have to be labelled "sin." A person can accept that they've made mistakes, hurt people or hurt themselves, learn from that, and move on. No offended God or hell required. Curiously, this is what I tend to hear from people when my beliefs don't square with theirs. Because it would be impossible for me to really know stuff about Christianity and reject it, right? I am a thinking person who makes decisions based on morals. I don't blindly check a list of religious rules to see if what I want to do is encouraged or forbidden. I really don't like being preached at by people who think they know better, which is why it's quite liberating to rely on "me." I believe that we are all part of the divine, so there's no guy with long white hair up there making rules for us anyway; those were written by the leaders of certain religious and cultural groups long ago. You seem to have "worship" confused with respect and love. Someone who wants to be worshipped is quite likely a narcissist, and people who want to worship others are doing that due to unhealthy psychological need. You do know that we stopped being ruled by kings quite a while ago, don't you? These "king of kings" metaphors were coined for people who saw it as normal to worship a king (and indeed dangerous not to).