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Author | Topic: Which religion's creation story should be taught? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
However, It is a Federal Government document It can't be a "Federal Government" document since it predates the existence of the US Federal Government by a decade.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So here is the beginning outline to teach the Christian Creation Myths.
The Gods Story 1: source Genesis 1. This god is best described a competent, aloof, overarching, creating by an act of will alone; but separate from anything created, with no interaction, impersonal, ammoral. Story 2: source Genesis 2. This god is kind of a bumbler, hands on tinkerer, not very bright, unsure, working by trial and error, making mistakes but personal, involved, learning on the job. Then the teacher could go on to show the order of creation in each myth. Next the sub-plots found in the Genesis 2 myth could be covered. Edited by jar, : fix sub-title Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9199 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
It is a Federal Government document
Not it isn't. Neither is the Mayflower Compact or the Articles of Confederation.
Please, read what Thomas Jefferson (One of the ‘Deists’ who sighed ‘The Declaration of Independence’) said when he implemented ‘Thanksgiving’ ‘General Thanksgiving By the PRESIDENT of the United States Of America A PROCLAMATION
Excuse me while I laugh a bit. Cutting and pasting from fundy sites will always get you in trouble. Did you even bother to follow the link?Let me see who signed it. Oh George Washington. Not Thomas Jefferson. quote:Source If you don't like wiki as a source. I can find dozens more that will confirm this. Maybe you were confused between Thomas Jefferson and Jefferson Davis.
quote:Source Gee how did that lord of hosts do for them? Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
As I have been trying to point out ‘your idea of what President Jefferson called ‘separation of Church and State’’ is not what even he meant by it. I do't see how your quotations are even relevant to separation.
Please, read what Thomas Jefferson (One of the ‘Deists’ who sighed ‘The Declaration of Independence’) said when he implemented ‘Thanksgiving’ ‘General Thanksgiving By the PRESIDENT of the United States Of America A PROCLAMATION’ As has been pointed out, that was Washington. But while we're on the subject, let's hear what Madison, who wrote the First Amendment, had to say about religious proclamations by the executive:
Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history. [...] Religious proclamations by the Executive recommending thanksgivings & fasts are shoots from the same root with the legislative acts reviewed. Altho' recommendations only, they imply a religious agency, making no part of the trust delegated to political rulers. So the author of the First Amendment felt that proclamations such as Washington's were an encroachment on separation. The fact that Washington did nonetheless make such a proclamation doesn't mean that it's an example of someone keeping on the right side of the wall. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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JRTjr Member (Idle past 4333 days) Posts: 178 From: Houston, Texas, USA Joined: |
Dear Dr Adequate,
Thank you for your responses, and your interest in this topic.
Dr Adequate writes: You keep ignoring the Establishment Clause. Since the entire paragraph you quoted was directly relating to the 1st Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America, and it is often miss labels as ‘the Establishment Clause’ of our Constitution, I am forced to conclude that you are speaking of some other Clause in some other document that I am ignoring. I do not want to ignore any facts so, if you would, what Establishment Clause are you speaking of? Thank you for your time and effort,JRTjr
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JRTjr Member (Idle past 4333 days) Posts: 178 From: Houston, Texas, USA Joined: |
Dear bluescat48,
Allowing something to sit on public display is not ‘making’ a law. Sorry, please, try again,JRTjr
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frako Member (Idle past 334 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
since the 2 exclude each other,
i think you should teach the greek creation story, it makes way more sense http://www.cs.williams.edu/~lindsey/myths/myths_16.html the whole story
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I think teaching many of the different creation myths is a great idea because each gives us some insight into how a particular people of a given era thought.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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frako Member (Idle past 334 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
strangely it can be molded to fit science
In the beginning there was an empty darkness. The only thing in this void was Nyx, a bird with black wings. With the wind she laid a golden egg and for ages she sat upon this egg. Finally life began to stir in the egg and out of it rose Eros, the god of love. One half of the shell rose into the air and became the sky and the other became the Earth. Eros named the sky Uranus and the Earth he named Gaia. Then Eros made them fall in love. big bang, some stuff made everything else one part of the mater made the earth.
After much fighting the younger generation won. With Zeus as their leader, they began to furnish Gaia with life and Uranus with stars. after much time the earth formed the stars formed and life got started
Soon the Earth lacked only two things: man and animals. Zeus summoned his sons Prometheus (fore-thought) and Epimetheus (after-thought). He told them to go to Earth and create men and animals and give them each a gift. plants where the first thing on the soil, now its time to evolve some animals and some intelligence
Prometheus set to work forming men in the image of the gods and Epimetheus worked on the animals. As Epimetheus worked he gave each animal he created one of the gifts. After Epimetheus had completed his work Prometheus finally finished making men. However when he went to see what gift to give man Epimetheus shamefacedly informed him that he had foolishly used all the gifts. after the animals evolved we need some intelligence lets make a man from the ape like creature, and give him something that will set his dominance
Distressed, Prometheus decided he had to give man fire, even though gods were the only ones meant to have access to it. As the sun god rode out into the world the next morning Prometheus took some of the fire and brought it back to man. He taught his creation how to take care of it and then left them lets teach the man how to use fire he can use the principle to asert his dominance on the planet. nooooosss he might get too smart too fast!!
Out of the box flew all of the horrors which plague the world today - pain, sickness, envy, greed. Upon hearing Pandora's screams Epimetheus rushed home and fastened the lid shut, but all of the evils had already escaped. once self awarnes kicks in man finds out he got screwed
Later that night they heard a voice coming from the box saying, "Let me out. I am hope." well things might get better we have brains after all maybe we can get rid of all this bad stuff
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JRTjr Member (Idle past 4333 days) Posts: 178 From: Houston, Texas, USA Joined: |
Dear Jar,
Although I agree with you that a course in Comparative religion or Sacred Studies should be part of a basic education. The Question was: If we are to teach creation in public schools, which creation story should we teach? Do we teach Genesis? If so which version of Genesis? Do we teach the story of the Norse gods carving the world from the bones of giants? Or the Hindu belief that the world is God's dream? Heck, even Christians don't agree on a literal six-day creation less than 10'000 years ago or Genesis as metaphor for divinely inspired evolution... I say evolution belongs in the science classroom and creation belongs in comparative religion... {MexicanHotChocolate’s Message #1} I believe what MexicanHotChocolate was asking is ‘should any of the creation stories/myths be specifically taught in science classes as scientifically plausible?’ Thank you for your interest,JRTjr
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
I believe what MexicanHotChocolate was asking is ‘should any of the creation stories/myths be specifically taught in science classes as scientifically plausible?’ MHC in the OP writes: I say evolution belongs in the science classroom and creation belongs in comparative religion... Dude, you quoted him and you still misconstrued what he said? Mythical stories do not belong in science class. End of discussion. They are not scientific. "What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
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JRTjr Member (Idle past 4333 days) Posts: 178 From: Houston, Texas, USA Joined: |
Dear Hooah212002,
Thank you for your participation. I will try to remember to not use color when responding to you. You may also find it helpful to copy and past my posts to your favorite word processor to read it more clearly.
Hooah212002 writes: Do you even know what atheism is?????? I'll tell you what it is NOT: a religion. Atheism: noun 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no god. 2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings. Origin: 1580—90; < Gk the ( os ) godless + -ism JRTjr writes: Religion, according to ‘Dictionary.Com’ is: 2. A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.3. The body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions. 6. Something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice. (Dictionary.com Unabridged. Based on the Random House Dictionary, Random House, Inc. 2010.) So, despite your unfounded assertions, according to Dictionary.com ‘Atheism’ is belief which is the vary definition of ‘religion’. Thank you again for your input,JRTjr
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
Take a better look at the rest of the definitions there smart guy. Saying atheism is a religion is like saying not collecting stamps is a hobby or bald is a hair color.
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I believe what MexicanHotChocolate was asking is ‘should any of the creation stories/myths be specifically taught in science classes as scientifically plausible?’ Thank you for your interest,JRTjr Of course not. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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JRTjr Member (Idle past 4333 days) Posts: 178 From: Houston, Texas, USA Joined: |
Dear Bluescat48,
Bluescat48 writes: what else is there besides the universe. By definition, universe is everything. Universe:
—noun 1. the totality of known or supposed objects and phenomena throughout space; the cosmos; macrocosm. (Dictionary.com Unabridged Based on the Random House Dictionary, Random House, Inc. 2010.)
n 1. astronomy the aggregate of all existing matter, energy, and space. (Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition 2009 William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 HarperCollins Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009)
Multi-verse:
n astronomy the aggregate of all existing matter, of which the universe is but a tiny fragment (Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition 2009 William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 HarperCollins Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009) If you know anything about Quantum Scientific theory, you would know that Science now tells use that the four dimensions of what we call our ‘Universe’ is not all that there is. Scientists are now theorizing that there may be many, if not an infinite number of, universes. {May I point out here the Bible states emphatically that there is something beyond this known universe.} Thank you, again, for your input,JRTjr
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