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Member (Idle past 4451 days) Posts: 415 From: Australia Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Kent Hovind | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Buzsaw Inactive Member |
fearandloathing writes: It just seems to me it would be fairly easy to prove or disprove his claims. Based on my limited knowledge of what happens to wood in a marine environment, it would never allow coral growth to form in the shapes he shows, wood would be the first thing to go. I am not sure how long iron would last or what evidence of it if any would be left inside the coral formations. If wood goes first, why is there wood in the Black Sea alledly pre-dating the Exodus? Why couldn't it form in the shapes he shows? How could it form in the wheel shapes the evidence shows if there were no wood wheels? BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Dirk Member (Idle past 4053 days) Posts: 84 Joined:
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How could it form in the wheel shapes the evidence shows if there were no wood wheels?
Simple. Because they wanted to see it:
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Taq writes: For what it is worth: quote:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One of the individuals who I interviewed, who lost approximately 30,000 thousand dollars to Ron Wyatt, went to Israel with him, supposedly to see some of these sights and record them on film. An assignment editor of a major television station in Nasheville went with them. Not only did this individual not see any of these incredible discoveries, but his wife was told by one of Ron Wyatt's sons that the chariot wheels that Ron supposedly discovered in the Gulf of Aqaba were planted there by Ron. Mr. Wyatt gave this couple some coins which he supposedly found at the Ark of the Covenant site. Again, one of Wyatt's sons informed the wife that Wyatt bought those coins. Gentle, soft-spoken Ron verbally abused an Arab car rental agent when the agent told Mr. Wyatt that his son was to young to drive the vehicle. This couple and the television man returned with nothing to show for the ten's of thousands of dollars he gave to Ron. Later, Ron returned and asked for $10,000 dollars more. This man told Ron he would give him the money if he agreed to take a lie detector test and sign a statement agreeing to allow this man to use the results of the test any way he wanted. Ron tried to get the money without agreeing to take the test, but when he saw that he would not get another dime without the test, he finally signed the statement and took the test. In the words of the man who put Ron Wyatt through the test, as told by the man who gave Ron Wyatt all the previous money, "He failed just about everything except his name." source Interestingly, he goes after Wyatt. All do, yet it was Moller who set out to falsify Wyatt's claims. I don't think Moller, renowned as a scientist would jeopardize his credibility by fraudulently reporting his research. Interestingly, also, is that if so many are so anxious to debunk the evidence why aren't they there to do it fair and square themselves. That's easy. They don't want to find the evidence that Moller produced. Everybody calls for more research. Well, let the skeptics go in and either poop or get off the pot.. The Exodus is not the topic here We've all been there and done that. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2135 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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If wood goes first, why is there wood in the Black Sea alledly pre-dating the Exodus? Good questions. 1) What is the evidence that it is wood?2) What is the evidence that it pre-dates the exodus? The problem we have with the "archaeology" that has been done is we still don't know the answers to those and other questions. The reaction of a real archaeologist would be to go and find out. They would come back with real evidence if there was any to be found. If not, they would say so. The folks you have been citing instead proclaimed vindication for their religious beliefs and started selling movies. Really, does this not seem unprofessional to you? I know you agree with their results, but don't you really see that they have presented no evidence, just wishes and beliefs?Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2290 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 6.9
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If wood goes first, why is there wood in the Black Sea alledly pre-dating the Exodus?
The conditions in the Black Sea are not the same as the conditions in the red seas.
How could it form in the wheel shapes the evidence shows if there were no wood wheels?
yes how could it form into roundish shapes of unspecified size unless there were egyptian chariot wheels present!? Perhaps by growing on other roundish objects of unspecified size?
That's easy. They don't want to find the evidence that Moller produced.
Or they see no reason to waste time and money to debunk Moller's bullshit. Why can't Moller produce actual evidence? Why couldn't he bring along a tape measure and give use the sizes of these roundish coral growths?
The Exodus is not the topic here We've all been there and done that.
Then why did you bring it up? Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Interestingly, also, is that if so many are so anxious to debunk the evidence why aren't they there to do it fair and square themselves. That's easy. They don't want to find the evidence that Moller produced. There is no evidence to debunk. That's the point.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Interestingly enough you are being dishonest here. The facts are that Taq chose to quote a critique of Wyatt because Moller is an uncritical follower of Wyatt, who went out to support Wyatt's claims without any serious attempt to refute them at all. And we already know that Moller's book is about as damaging to his reputation as it could be - given that it is in an area unrelated to his speciality of Environmental Medicine. And that may be the only thing saving him - his work in Environmental Medicine stands on its own, and so long as that is unaffected by his religious nonsense, his reputation in that field is pretty much safe.
quote: A fair bit of debunking has gone on here. But let's be clear, no serious researcher thinks it's worth the time BECAUSE the "evidence" is so rubbish, and the claims so ridiculous. THe would-be debunkers are private individuals and mounting a serious investigate - one more serious than Moller attempted (which is what you are demanding) would be a significant expense, not worth it when armchair debunking does so much. Ad let us be clear that the burden of proof is on Moller. If he does not haver the evidence to support his claims it is not the responsibility of anyone else to investigate and prove him wrong, it is up to him to investigate and show that he is right. But as I said, armchair debunking can be done and has been done to much of Moller's "evidence". For instance I debunked the already-dubious claim that statues of Senmut holding Hatshepsut's infant daughter were in fact statues of Hatshepsut holding Senmut as a baby - by finding an almost identical statue of Senmut without the baby. A clear example of jumping to conclusions based on superficial research - typical of apologetics, but not of science.
quote: Actually we call for Moller to go out there and do a proper job of research instead of just assuming that Ron Wyatt must be right. And until he does produce good evidence we don't have to pretend that he does have good evidence. Just as we don't have to pretend that his book is scientific or well-reasoned or anything other than a steaming heap of credulous Ron Wyatt-worshipping nonsense.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Coyote writes: 1) What is the evidence that it is wood?2) What is the evidence that it pre-dates the exodus? Surely you're aware of Robert Ballard's National Geographic touted discovery, estimated to be over 5000 years ago of wooden structures 550' down in the Black Sea. Apparently this confirms my contention that permission must be had from the nation whose jurisdiction the area is under in order to analyze the wood, etc. To my knowledge, that has not yet been done. Why should scientist Moller be held to a higher standard of research than the likes of the great renowned Ballard so far as verification?
quote: BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Because the wood found in the Black sea is from deep water far below where coral grows and in an oxygen low environment, not covered by coral and in shallow waters.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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Buz - If this wood hasn't been analysed yet on what basis do you think it supports the conclusions you are advocating?
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4174 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
If wood goes first, why is there wood in the Black Sea alledly pre-dating the Exodus Buzz, the answer to your question lies in your own links about Ballard.
quote: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...12/122800blacksea.html Seems you have answered yourself, thanks. "No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten." Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
fearandloathing writes: Seems you have answered yourself, thanks. But the coral would not have formed in the Black Sea region. The coral likely formed before the wood rotted or possibly even preserved the wood from rot to some degree. In either case, there was good reason not to publicize further research. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, as the saying goes. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4174 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined:
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The coral likely formed before the wood rotted or possibly even preserved the wood from rot to some degree. Likely??Possibly?? Want to add an "If" in there somewhere? Science demands proof, not a bunch of unsupported maybes and ifs. If you can find me something to support your claims about how coral would form on a wooden structure and take the shape of that structure even possibly preserving some of it, then by all means point it out to me, I am always open to learning by being proven wrong. It shouldn't be too hard considering all the ship wrecks that have occurred on or near coral reefs."No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten." Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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While looking up more about this crap I came across this site
Page not found – Pinkoski.com Where it says.
quote: Both the links are dead.Hilarious. Also no where is there a reference to the supposed Israeli claim. Maybe this is what they wanted to link to, but it doenst seem to provide any evidence at all.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts |
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2290 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
The coral likely formed before the wood rotted...
What is/are the species of coral that these formation consist of?It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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