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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 91 of 337 (646365)
01-04-2012 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Larni
01-04-2012 11:48 AM


Re: SWTOR
But the analogy only works if obese people are just as healthy as non obese people
Not so; its actually true that the rates of unemployment are higher among African-Americans than among American whites. It's certainly the case that if you're looking at a black man, you're looking at a man who is less likely to be employed and more likely to have a criminal record than if you're looking at a white man.
But its no more true that you can look at the color of a man's skin and determine his employment history than you can look at a person and determine their BMI and their overall level of health.
what you are telling me about fat/obese people contradicts what I have learnt in biology class and been told by my GP over the years.
I'm aware. It's nevertheless true.
You need to accept that you could be wrong about that guy being as healthy with as long a life as some one not obese.
I never told you that he was healthy. It's not my position that he's healthy. What I'm telling you is very simple and I wonder why you keep ignoring it: you can't tell someone's activity level and health just by looking at them. Some healthy, very active people are going to enjoy long, healthy lives and never experience any of the conditions you've referred to and they're going to do it all while being medically obese. Even morbidly obese.
High blood cholesterol? High blood triglicerides? Those are a function of diet, not weight. Now, they may very well be a function of the diet that made you fat in the first place - although we're finding that diet doesn't have much of an effect on obesity, since obese people actually consume less calories than the non-obese - but a fat person who eats a diet of mostly vegetables and lean meats (and if you read that NYT story I linked, you'll find the story of a woman who can't lose any weight on an 800-calorie diet of vegetables and one grilled chicken breast a day) isn't going to have any higher risk of those conditions than a thin person on the same diet. And conversely, someone thin may have incredibly high blood cholesterol as a function of a bad diet and bad genetics and they may simply be active enough to keep the pounds off.
Weight isn't a proxy for health. It's just not that simple. You can't look at someone and tell how healthy they are. Like this kid:
Hey, maybe the doctors are wrong and this kid is perfectly fine. Like I say, you can't tell just by looking at someone. Still, though, when you hear statistics about the US (or the UK) and its prevalence of obesity and the "health crisis" that is the direct result, keep in mind that those statistics are based on classifying people like Cian Atwood as "obese."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Larni, posted 01-04-2012 11:48 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Larni, posted 01-04-2012 1:04 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 337 (646369)
01-04-2012 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Panda
01-04-2012 12:12 PM


Re: SWTOR
I was on Beta, but all chars were deleted.
Ah, well I bet that still helped you level faster this time around.
I don't do xmas and my GF was out of the country... and voila! A L50 char!
Well done, sir! I did get to level 10 at my first sitting in the game - which was, like, 6 hours straight
Vanguards are tanks, so we tend to have to run up - but I made my choice myself.
(Vanguards have a couple of 'gap closing' abilities too.)
Do they have any healing? I suppose I could just look that up...
Arch, Scav and Slice.
But if you join a nice guild there is little reason to choose one skill over another, other than to have a skill the guild lacks.
Crafting costs a bit to level, though.
But Slicing makes a lot of cash - so it balances.
I did want my crew skills to compliment each other, so that I was gathering stuff I could craft with, but yeah, now that my guildmates are getting up there, its really easy to have someone craft something for you.
The Progenitor.
Ops next week when my new PC arrives...
Oh, I'm on a different server.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Panda, posted 01-04-2012 12:12 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Panda, posted 01-04-2012 12:58 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 93 of 337 (646370)
01-04-2012 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by crashfrog
01-04-2012 10:07 AM


Re: SWTOR
I think he's fat-looking. I'm trying to tell you that nobody can judge his health just by looking.
The dude ran out of breath and broke a sweat from yelling at a webcam... that's not healthy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by crashfrog, posted 01-04-2012 10:07 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 94 of 337 (646374)
01-04-2012 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by New Cat's Eye
01-04-2012 12:36 PM


Re: SWTOR
CS writes:
Do they have any healing? I suppose I could just look that up...
Nope.
Commando has healing/dps - Vanguard has tanking/dps.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-04-2012 12:36 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-04-2012 1:53 PM Panda has replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 95 of 337 (646376)
01-04-2012 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by crashfrog
01-04-2012 12:17 PM


Re: SWTOR
The Telegraph article is, I agree madness.
But to be fair you said
There's no evidence that weight is a proxy for health. Of course, facing the facts would just get in the way of simplistic, moralizing shaming of the fatties, right Larni?
A quick browse of google scholar brings up this:
Waist-to-hip ratio shows a graded and highly significant association with myocardial infarction risk worldwide. Redefinition of obesity based on waist-to-hip ratio instead of BMI increases the estimate of myocardial infarction attributable to obesity in most ethnic groups.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/...rticle/pii/S0140673605676635
What do you think that guys hip to waist ratio is and how do you think it correlates with that guys health? Could we tell from looking at him? What would you say? I'm aware it is an association but to say there is no evidence is a bit much.
From my reading over our discussion I do now see that BMI is not useful in any but the broadest strokes for predicting health.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
Moreover that view is a blatantly anti-relativistic one. I'm rather inclined to think that space being relative to time and time relative to location should make such a naive hankering to pin-point an ultimate origin of anything, an aspiration that is not even wrong.
Well, Larni, let's say I much better know what I don't want to say than how exactly say what I do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by crashfrog, posted 01-04-2012 12:17 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 337 (646380)
01-04-2012 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Panda
01-04-2012 12:58 PM


Re: SWTOR
Nope.
Commando has healing/dps - Vanguard has tanking/dps.
Yeah, now I remember my rational: Since they both wear the heavy armor, the defense increase from the Vanguard's defense abilities would be somewhat marginal, at least compared to the benefit of having the healing abilities of the Commando (assume you're not going strictly tanking).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Panda, posted 01-04-2012 12:58 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Larni, posted 01-04-2012 2:18 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 147 by Panda, posted 01-05-2012 7:00 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 97 of 337 (646383)
01-04-2012 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by New Cat's Eye
01-04-2012 1:53 PM


Re: SWTOR
What kind of PC specs does it require?
My laptop can run Far Cry at low to moderate settings. Should I have a punt?

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
Moreover that view is a blatantly anti-relativistic one. I'm rather inclined to think that space being relative to time and time relative to location should make such a naive hankering to pin-point an ultimate origin of anything, an aspiration that is not even wrong.
Well, Larni, let's say I much better know what I don't want to say than how exactly say what I do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-04-2012 1:53 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-04-2012 2:32 PM Larni has replied
 Message 148 by Panda, posted 01-05-2012 7:04 AM Larni has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 98 of 337 (646385)
01-04-2012 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Larni
01-04-2012 2:18 PM


Re: SWTOR
What kind of PC specs does it require?
quote:
What are the system requirements for the game?
Processor:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 4000+ or better
Intel Core 2 Duo 2.0GHz or better
Operating System:
Windows XP Service Pack 3 or later
RAM:
Windows XP: 1.5GB RAM
Windows Vista and Windows 7: 2GB RAM
Note: PCs using a built-in graphical chipset are recommended to have 2GB of RAM.
Star Wars: The Old Republic requires a video card that has a minimum of 256MB of on-board RAM as well as support for Shader 3.0 or better. Examples include:
ATI X1800 or better
nVidia 7800 or better
Intel 4100 Integrated Graphics or better
DVD-ROM drive — 8x speed or better (required for installation from physical editions only) Internet connection required to play.
Its not too bad. The graphics aren't really ridiculous, like Battlefield 3, or anything. But they're difinately good, and spot on Star Wars looking (which is more important to me).
If you can run it, you should give it a shot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Larni, posted 01-04-2012 2:18 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Larni, posted 01-04-2012 3:01 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 99 of 337 (646392)
01-04-2012 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by New Cat's Eye
01-04-2012 2:32 PM


Re: SWTOR
Thinking about playing someone who has the opportunity to kill goody two shoes Jedi is sounding better and better.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
Moreover that view is a blatantly anti-relativistic one. I'm rather inclined to think that space being relative to time and time relative to location should make such a naive hankering to pin-point an ultimate origin of anything, an aspiration that is not even wrong.
Well, Larni, let's say I much better know what I don't want to say than how exactly say what I do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-04-2012 2:32 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-04-2012 3:17 PM Larni has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 100 of 337 (646393)
01-04-2012 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by crashfrog
01-04-2012 10:35 AM


Re: SWTOR
What makes you say that? What other MMO's that initially came out with monthly fees are now free to play? Eve is still pay to play, Guild Wars is still pay to play, WoW is very much pay to play. Perhaps you've some knowledge unbeknownst to me, but any strictly MMO that comes out as pay to play doesn't stand to go free to play.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by crashfrog, posted 01-04-2012 10:35 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Larni, posted 01-04-2012 3:09 PM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 103 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-04-2012 3:18 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 105 by crashfrog, posted 01-04-2012 3:30 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 101 of 337 (646395)
01-04-2012 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by hooah212002
01-04-2012 3:03 PM


Re: SWTOR
As I recall Guild Wars was free.
Guild Wars 1, that is.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
Moreover that view is a blatantly anti-relativistic one. I'm rather inclined to think that space being relative to time and time relative to location should make such a naive hankering to pin-point an ultimate origin of anything, an aspiration that is not even wrong.
Well, Larni, let's say I much better know what I don't want to say than how exactly say what I do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by hooah212002, posted 01-04-2012 3:03 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by hooah212002, posted 01-04-2012 3:39 PM Larni has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 102 of 337 (646398)
01-04-2012 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Larni
01-04-2012 3:01 PM


Re: SWTOR
Thinking about playing someone who has the opportunity to kill goody two shoes Jedi is sounding better and better.
Ah... so a Mary Sue Sith Those are KOS for me
I made a dark side guy... the story was way crazier. For the good side, you can just get your orders from the commanders and do the obviously right thing (well not always so obvious, e.g. do you return the stolen med packs to the republic or let the lady who stole them for the injured orphans use them?
-tangent here: The story lines are great in this game in that your decisions actually matter and affect it. After you find those stolen med packs back, you literally have two people you can turn that quest in to - the rebuplic guy or the orphan lady. And that changes what happens next in the story.
Anyways, for the dark side, Guy A says lets go fuck over Guy B, Guy B says 'no, you should join me and we'll fuck him over'. Then Guy C says, you should join me and then we'll take out Guy A's boss and secure all the power! I'm all: I don't know what to do and I can't trust any of these guys. Its cool but a little to complicated to be a content tourist and just breeze through it. (not a bad thing unless that's your bag).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Larni, posted 01-04-2012 3:01 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Larni, posted 01-04-2012 4:15 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 103 of 337 (646399)
01-04-2012 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by hooah212002
01-04-2012 3:03 PM


Re: SWTOR
What other MMO's that initially came out with monthly fees are now free to play?
Dungeons and Dragons Online. Everquest 1 & 2. DC Universe Online. etc.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by hooah212002, posted 01-04-2012 3:03 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 104 of 337 (646401)
01-04-2012 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by New Cat's Eye
01-04-2012 3:18 PM


Re: SWTOR
Champions Online (kinda fun), LotR Online, Age of Conan (pretty, but not as fun as I'd hoped), City of Heroes/Villains, Aeon (not sure if it happened yet, might be later this month)...
Really, it's etting easier to list the ones that aren't F2P. Those would be WoW, Rift, and SWTOR. I'm sure there are a few others too.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-04-2012 3:18 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 105 of 337 (646403)
01-04-2012 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by hooah212002
01-04-2012 3:03 PM


Re: SWTOR
What other MMO's that initially came out with monthly fees are now free to play?
CS already mentioned some but here's a few more: City of Heroes/City of Villians, Champions Online. For that matter World of Warcraft did actually go free-to-play, on a limited basis: the free-to-play part is the "vanilla" WoW, the 1-60 areas of the "original" game before the "Burning Legion" expansion.
"Freemium" is probably a better term for these games; there's a "core game" that is free to play, and then a whole host of premium content that you either buy piecemeal or pay a monthly subscription for. As I say, I think SWTOR will move to the same model; if even World of Warcraft has free to play content, there's just no long-term hope for a subscription-model MMO anymore. I think EVE Online is the only subscription holdout (but you can play it for free, sort of, by buying subscription cards with the in-game ISK currency.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by hooah212002, posted 01-04-2012 3:03 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
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