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Author | Topic: Gun Control Again | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
.Pass a law that makes you culpable if your firearm is used in a crime.
Agreed
. There are too many guns already on the street. So just put a end to the manufacture of ammo for any assault type weapons.
Difficult to define. .223 and 556(they are not actually the same round) can be used in hunting rifles. Might be able to justify a ban on 556 as that is actually a military round. I can see a lot of confusion and push back on this.
Go back to a ban on assault weapons and high capacity mags.
Agreed. If not an outright ban then regulation of how bought and how stored.
Hire a armed security guard for schools with the training and capability to neutralize any armed threat.
We can't people to pay for teachers. How we going to convince them to do this. I think the first step is complete registration of all handguns and assault style weapons. The defining of assault weapons is challenging but I think we can come to a national consensus on what the term means and what needs to be registered. No where in the Constitution is there anything to say these can not be regulated to this extent. If you don't want to register your weapons suffer the consequences.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
with their own guns The wording is "bear arms" not own arms. If they meant personal ownership why did they not state that?Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Another word that can be defined multiple ways. Why didn't they say "own and bear"?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
The question is why would we need to stop a civilian from having a rapid-fire gun. quote: Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
I dunno, they talked differnt back then. How could I even know that?
My point exactly.
Now all you have to do is show how stopping a civilian from having a rapid-fire gun promotes the general Welfare.p. Really? Have you heard of Newtown, CT?Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
because there's no such thing as an "assault-type weapon" Gee. We had a ban once. Seems they defined the term then.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
All of the records for fastest rate of fire of conventional firearms (as distinguished from high-tech "caseless" autofire weapons) are set with revolvers.
Yes. But that was by extremely proficient and well trained individuals.Another strawman. Whudda thunk. I never stated anything about a semi-auto have faster rate of fire than a revolver. How about you keep the random shit out of the conversation. "Semi-auto" doesn't refer to the number of rounds held in the firearm; it refers to the action of the firearm, and whether the weapon uses the recoil energy of the shot to cycle the action and load the next round. It's not a reference to how fast the weapon can be fired or how many rounds it can hold. You seemingly know nothing about guns. No shit. But semi autos are fed by a clip. A clip can hold more rounds than a revolver. Logical extension of the term semi-auto. Show me a non-semi auto that can hold more rounds than a semi auto and you might have a point.
That's exactly wrong. The Bushmaster .223 is, of course, a variant of the AR-15 modular receiver concept; that design grew out of the AR-10, which was originally designed as a lightweight "survival rifle" - a modular weapon in a lightweight caliber that could be disassembled and stored as part of a survival kit. In other words it was a hunting weapon. The AR-15 variant adapted the technology to meet the requirements of the Army program to replace the M1 Garand, itself originally a hunting rifle chambered for .30-06. Lets start at end and work our way back.
the M1 Garand, itself originally a hunting rifle chambered for .30-06.
No. Developed at United States Springfield Armory for military use.AR-10, which was originally designed as a lightweight "survival rifle" - a modular weapon in a lightweight caliber that could be disassembled and stored as part of a survival kit. This is incorrect and a regular myth presented by a lot of people. When Eugen Stoner first met the Armalite people they were testing a lightweight caliber survival rifle. That was not eh AR-10 that Stoner designed, it was a different weapon completely that never got very far. 7.62x51mm NATO is roughly the .308 Winchester. This would be a medium weight caliber. This is not a lightweight caliber. Compare the AR-10 to other survival rifles. Completely different animals. the AR-10 was developed to compete to replace the M1 Garand, not as a survival rifle.
In other words it was a hunting weapon.
Wrong, wrong, wrong.No AR-10's were sold as hunting rifles. This was a military rifle from beginning to end. You could do some basic research to know this. quote:Source Any civilian Ar-10's came from the military surplus market. You seemingly know nothing about guns.
Is that irony?
The Bushmaster .223 is accurate to within 2" at 300 yards, using the right ammo, accessories, and barrel.
That would be a non-standard match quality Bushmaster. Not one rigged as a "hunting" rifle. I have gotten 5" groups at 200 yards with a match quality .556 rifle. I can shoot 3" groups with an off the shelf Ruger M77 Hawkeye in 7mm-08 at the same distance. Off the shelf Assault style rifle and it is typical to get about 8" group at 200 yards.
Semiauto rifles are more accurate than bolt-action ones because the recoil energy is absorbed and used. And it's worth pointing out that almost all of the accessories that increase accuracy - optical scopes, energy-absorbing stocks, balancing counterweights - are precisely the accessories that make these weapons look "military." One is left with the impression that gun foes think that weapons would be safer if they were made more inaccurate.
Strawman again. Though I discount your contention that a semi auto is "more" accurate than a bolt or single shot rifle. Have you shot a Thompson single shot rifle? It isn't whether the rifle is semi auto or bolt. It is what it is designed for. Hunting is different than throwing lead.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
The facts are that 70% of all violent crimes are caused by people raised by Single Mothers.
Any support for this?
A second fact is that single fire hand guns kill about 4000 young inner city people every year, which is half of all murders in America.
Support? What is a single fire handgun? Can you give an example? Maybe you might want to try to supply facts.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
As CS has noted in the past, the legal definition of "assault weapons" in the assault weapons ban was so legally incoherent that it succeeded in functionally banning approximately zero weapons.
And because of this we are prohibited from attempting it again? Since it didn't work as envisioned we should never make any attempt again? That is a ridiculous and silly argument.
Also, as my pro-gun friend constantly reminds me, the Federal assault weapons ban was associated with an increase in gun deaths. Documentation for this claim? If it is true wouldn't it be an argument to see which weapons were being used and consider more regulation of them? Or do we just throw up are hands and say nothing can be done? I can show you how the end of the ban has increased gun violence in Mexico.http://themonkeycage.org/...ban-increased-violence-in-mexico Also, correlation does not imply causation.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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Would require the registration of guns. The simple idea of registering guns seems to be a nonstarter.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Wow
A clip can also hold less rounds than a revolver.
Yes but I cannot get a bigger cylinder for a revolver can I.
Many bolt-action rifles are magazine-fed, for instance.
Have you seen a 30 round clip for a bolt action rifle?
A trained individual can cycle the bolt of such a rifle quite quickly.
You really have trouble with the obvious don't you. Yes a trained person can. Any idiot can pull a trigger 30 times in a row quickly. How fast can an ordinary someone cycle a bolt action?
Yes. They were testing a lightweight caliber aluminum survival rifle based on modular components attached to a central receiver, based on a rotating-bolt gas-actuated design. In other words, the exact design of the AR-15. Every M-16-type rifle is based on that design. That's the "DNA" of the rifle, in other words, and it inherits directly from the original survival rifle. Your logic is amazing. First of all I do not think you are correct. The survival rifle was originally designed before Eugene Stoner joined Armalite. Also, armalite did come out with lightweight caliber survival rifles of a completely different design, the AR-5 and AR-7 whicj Stomnner did have a hand in designing. The AR-10 is a completely different type of firearm from a survival rifle. If you ahve any evidence showing the original survival rifle was simialr to the AR-10 present it. The whole design of the AR-10 is counter to what a survival rifle should be.
In other words, the exact design of the AR-15.
Prove it don't assert.If you don't believe me maybe you should discuss it with Armalite. quote: Because you don't understand how guns work, you don't understand how they're designed. As a result, you don't know how to recognize how those designs developed. For instance, your completely inaccurate presentation of the history of the M-16/AR-15.
Yes I am quite familiar with workings and designs of firearms. I am also quite familiar with the history of them also. Also, I am quite capable of finding sources to back what I say. In other words read Armalites history of the AR-10.
Maybe you're just a bad shot. Why should I believe you about these figures?
Off a bench with a bipod for sighting in. You have no reason to believe. Just telling you my personal experience. Take it or leave it. Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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I currently favor gun registration, ballistics fingerprinting of all weapons, magazine size limits, "bullet button" requirements on magazine-loading weapons, and possibly annual ammunition purchasing limits. I think these are rational common sense things. I think these are doable and effective. The registration is the first and biggest hurdle.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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No you did not register it. You had to fill out a federal firearms form, form 4473, but that form does not leave the gun store. The federal firearms licensee records it in a book and must keep the form and book for 20 years. The only time these forms are looked at is if law enforcement is tracing a gun used in a crime.
There is no gun registration in Illinois. Very few states have registration. By registration I am talking about a federal system so that the states are linked. We can link driving records why not gun registrations. Ideally law enforcement would be able to pull up the serial # and know who the last registered owner was, The hold the last registered owner liable for how it was used.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Amazing how there is no corroboration on this isnt it.
i think crash is putting too much faith in this account.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Nothing you've said convinces me to trust your statistics either.
Then do your own research.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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