EvC Forum: Ukraine's future

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Topic: Ukraine's future

dronestar

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Message 26 of 65 (721049)
03-03-2014 10:34 AM

Reply to: Message 23 by 1.61803
03-03-2014 9:53 AM

I'd prefer Ukraine be independent from Russia and Europe/NATO.

1.61803 writes:

That being said I still do not trust Russia. The BS they pulled in
Georgia and now Ukraine is proof that Russia still has a cold war mentality when it comes to it's surrounding territory.

I don't trust Russia either, however . . .

Why do you see the splinter in your brother's eye but not notice the log in your own eye?

The US/NATO has hundreds of military bases throughout the world. The bases encircle their enemies. (Thanks to Snowden we even know that the NSA encircles its own citizens.) Russia would prefer NATO and western influence not encroach/encircle them too.

Hegemony (and the cold war mentality) has many costs, both in lives and money. The usa has a military budget nearly EQUAL to the rest of the world combined. Is the cost worth it?

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	Message 23 by 1.61803, posted 03-03-2014 9:53 AM		1.61803 has replied

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	Message 27 by 1.61803, posted 03-03-2014 10:58 AM		dronestar has replied

dronestar

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From: usa

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Message 28 of 65 (721105)
03-03-2014 3:56 PM

Reply to: Message 27 by 1.61803
03-03-2014 10:58 AM

Orwellian baseline?

1.61803 writes:

What right does Russia have to occupy with military show of force in Ukraine's territory?

1. The usa didn't allow Cuba to have any Russian military bases in america's backyard, so why should Russia allow the Ukraine to have any NATO bases in Russia's backyard?

2. What right did america have to occupy with military show of force in Iraq's territory?

1.61803 writes:

But the U.S. has never completley took them over and violated [another country's] independance.

Are you kidding me?

1.61803 writes:

So when it comes to scrutiny, the Russian Federation is looking like a bully right now.

quote:
The US has been voted as the most significant threat to world peace in a survey across 68 different countries.

A global survey conducted by the Worldwide Independent Network and Gallup at the end of 2013 revealed strong animosity towards the US’s role as the world’s policeman. Citizens across over 60 nations were asked: Which country do you think is the greatest threat to peace in the world today?

The US topped the list, with 24 percent of people believing America to be the biggest danger to peace.

US the biggest threat to world peace in 2013 — poll RT World News

Russia occupying Ukraine IS a breach of international law and IS in direct, overt violation of international law. But for any american, especially Obama or Kerry to say it is, is the height of hypocrisy.

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dronestar

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From: usa

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Message 32 of 65 (721165)
03-04-2014 11:52 AM

Reply to: Message 31 by 1.61803
03-04-2014 11:31 AM

Re: Orwellian baseline?

Hi Golden Ratio,

1.61803 writes:

Putin is wrong.

Yeah, no doubt. We certainly are in agreement here.

But when the condemnation comes from Kerry or Obama, it makes Kerry or Obama look like a million times worse than Adolf Hitler. Literally. (Since we are already talking about war criminals, bringing up Hitler would not be against Godwin's Law)

1.61803 writes:

This is about Russia seizing power, upsurping a sovereign country's borders air space and water ways to protect a tyrant and self interest.

With Obama attacking Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, etc, airspace with illegal and immoral drones, I should think your american voice would be more constructive condemning american international violations.

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	Message 31 by 1.61803, posted 03-04-2014 11:31 AM		1.61803 has replied

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dronestar

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From: usa

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Message 35 of 65 (721170)
03-04-2014 12:27 PM

Reply to: Message 34 by 1.61803
03-04-2014 12:04 PM

Well,

Whoops, nevermind, the picture was for Paul. My apologies.

(glad Percy has temporarily taken away jeers)

Edited by dronester, : wrong reply

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dronestar

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Message 37 of 65 (721222)
03-05-2014 9:26 AM

Reply to: Message 36 by 1.61803
03-04-2014 6:05 PM

Re: Orwellian baseline?

1.61803 writes:

Oh I have enough condemnation to go around.

Good to hear 1.61803! You are a true patriot . . .

quote:
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt, 1918

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dronestar

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From: usa

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Message 39 of 65 (721252)
03-05-2014 4:05 PM

Reply to: Message 38 by AZPaul3
03-05-2014 1:21 PM

Re: Orwellian baseline?

AZPaul3 writes:

Keep in mind this does not mean we MUST criticize the president and that we MUST oppose him at everything he does.

C'mon AZPaul3, I don't think Roosevelt was talking about a president's choice of a tie's colour.

AZPaul3 writes:

It also seems to be a major portion of the press's stance no matter who is president regardless of what is being done.

Wow, what cheese are you smoking? Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky describe the U.S. mass media as, essentially, stenographers of power. Corporate news has become an unquestioning spokesperson for the white house. if only america had corporate media that protected the civil rights, liberties, international laws and treaties, and constitutional law when a president lied or acted criminally. Instead americans live in darkness with state-protected secrets like the Obama's/NSA's wire tapping and the Pacific Free Trade Agreements that secure only the investor's rights. Sheesh, if only one corporate media giant courageously reported that Bush Jr. was lying americans into invading Iraq, maybe a million innocent deaths would have been avoided. Roosevelt wasn't talking about being oppositional ALL the time, but, surely, being vigilant, questioning authority ALL the time.

An educated citizenry is essential to democracy. If you believe that Faux News, CNN, or any other corporate media is currently fulfilling a service for the people, and not the state power, you have the mindset like, sadly, 99% of americans.

quote:
The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.
― Thomas Jefferson

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dronestar

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From: usa

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Message 41 of 65 (721254)
03-05-2014 4:30 PM

Reply to: Message 40 by AZPaul3
03-05-2014 4:20 PM

Re: Orwellian baseline?

AZPaul3 writes:

Except you misspelled color.

Is that what america's corporate media has told you?

Colour - definition of colour by The Free Dictionary

AZPaul3 writes:

Pragmatic Liberalism ... with a mushroom/white wine sauce.

Pragmatic Liberalism? Sounds like a gastronomical misadventure enjoyed by less discriminating palates at one of america's fast food joints, . . . Arby's?