Is faith the answer to cognitive dissonance?

REAL miracles ARE unique to Biblical Christianity. You can't come up with a real miracle from any other source.Actual fulfilled prophecy is also unique to the Bible.

By redating the scriptures past the events prophesied you eliminate prophecy. Clever of you. Not so clever of you to believe such a ploy of course.I don't know if there are even reports of actual miracles outside the Bible. I've read a lot of religious and occultic lore and can't think of any. Miracles defined as the suspension of natural laws. There are some kinds of phenomena that are mistaken for miracles, such as Providential occurrences as I said, and there are some shoddy imitations, there are Hindu tricks and demonic tricks for instance, but there are no REAL miracles as I've defined them.You have one up your sleeve?Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I've given you plenty of evidence of the CLAIMED miracles of the Bible. I'm asking for even a CLAIMED miracle that really is a miracle -- which is the suspension of natural law, such as water to wine, thousands of fishes and loaves of bread out of a few, instant healing of paralysis, lameness or blindness, bringing the dead back to life, etc. -- outside the Bible. As I said, I don't know of any.Demonic "miracles" are not demonic false because they're demonic but because they are not real miracles. NO RELIGION OTHER THAN BIBLICAL RELIGION CLAIMS REAL MIRACLES OR REAL PROPHECY.The evidence of prophecy is in the scriptures themselves, accepting the traditional dates given for them. Just read it, it claims to be prophetic. The traditional dates were in place up until the 19th century, at which time Liberal Christianity and Higher Criticism came along and reinterpreted it all, sticking on dates that were SUBJECTIVELY determined. They have NO OBJECTIVE grounds for their late dating.The Jesus Seminar that came out of that Liberal context is an example of this "method," SUBJECTIVELY deciding what's authentic in the New Testament and what isn't.ABE: That's also how they determined that there were different authors of different books of the Bible, by their own subjective judgments about style and so on. STUPID STUPID STUPID excuse for "scholarship" but this kind of stupidity reigns today in academe. /ABENow perhaps you think the subjective vaporings of a bunch of men sitting around pondering things is sufficient evidence to change the traditions of thousands of years, traditions that established the canon we have today as authentic and the prophecies as prophecies. But the burden of proof is on you and all those who recently decided their own mental vaporings were authoritative over the work of thousands over all those millennia.To my mind that is evidence enough, but I'm sure it won't be for you.\Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

All those things are the kind of phenomena I mentioned as being mistaken for miracles. These are probably all demonic tricks. Gold fillings appearing in teeth is a Hindu style trick. Hindu Guru Sai Baba was famous for producing metal trinkets out of thin air. (He was also caught faking it at least once.) If it isn't faked it is probably demonic. It's not a miracle in any case. It's similar to the "gold dust" that sometimes falls on people under some circumstances in both Hindu and "Christian" revival type meetings. There is one guy who is known for the glittery stuff that falls when he is "ministering" at one of these events. He is mentioned in passing on a video at You Tube by Andrew Strom about Kundalini Yoga being mistaken for something from God in these supposedly Christian revivals. Sorry I don't remember his name, just another poor deluded soul I figure.Perhaps I will have to redefine miracle to say better what I mean. These are just petty little "manifestations" that are probably all demonic. Some said the statues drinking milk was because of capillary action in the stone. Perhaps that's the explanation in that case. But such phenomena by comparison with the miracles in the Bible are just petty little tricks, signifying nothing. Just Wow stuff to no good purpose. Unworthy of God for sure, who feeds hungry people, heals sick people, brings the dead back to life.I've "heard of" the Sibylline Oracles. What are you claiming about them? That they make accurate prophecies or what? The same is claimed for Nostradamus. Cryptic stuff that is so ambiguous people pretty much read whatever prophecies into it that appeal to them. There's also a Medieval "prophet" called Malachi who predicted that this current Pope is to be the last. He's said to have a good record in describing all the other Popes, but his stuff is also ambiguous. Such things are not prophecy in the Biblical sense at all, where most of the prophetic passages describe the Messiah who is to come. But Daniel prophesied also of empires that would arise and described them quite remarkably clearly, from the Babylonian through Medo-Persia, then Alexander the Great's Hellenic empire, the fourth to be the Roman Empire during which time the Messiah was to come. Which He did. Now THAT is prophecy. But if you date it after those events, as --alas-- our modern "scholars" are wont to do, you destroy it as prophecy. You also destroy the coherence of the text, though, which ought to be a clue that it only works as prophecy. As I already said, they are not based on evidence, they are based on the ridiculous subjective judgements of unbelieving scholars. Whereas the traditional dates go back to antiquity, and one thing the ancient Jews did very well was preserve facts about their scriptures, as well as obsessively preserving the text itself. I've made a very good case, though I know it's lost on you because you refuse to believe in such things.

Not the way I'm using the word, and I think it's important to make the distinction. God produces miracles, but these other things aren't from God.HOWEVER, they can be dramatic phenomena for those who deny all such things. I happened to find the very spot on the You Tube video I mentioned to PaulK, where the guy who is known for the glittery dust that falls on people is mentioned. Right before him a woman who has the stigmata on her hands is shown.Go to 25.00 on the slider.The whole video is a presentation of the phenomena known as Kundalini manifestations that occurs in Hindu settings but has been showing up in Christian revivals, intended to warn Christians that these things are not from God.Was just going to link it, think I'll embed it: No YouTube URL ProvidedABE: Sorry, got the counter number wrong. 25.00 should be right. (Sorry, my eyes are getting bad)Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

What I've been trying to say is that the Bible is the only religious revelation in which miracles and prophecies are intrinsic to its revelation and theology rather than merely sources of amazement or amusement or personal experience. They are given to prove the nature of God, and I think if you give it some thought yourself you'd have to agree that those claimed in the Bible are on a much higher plane of quality than those I've called demonic manifestations. They have real significance for one thing, they aren't there just to entertain and wow or move your emotions.Most of the prophecies point to and define the coming Messiah, but also world events including the rise and fall of empires, culminating in a grand finale on a worldwide scale in the Book of Revelation. Oracles on the other hand are pretty limited in their scope not to mention often ambiguous and hard to decipher. Also the messages of oracles are usually a motley collection that can apply to all kinds of situations as they are consulted, but they are not intrinsic to any particular religious belief nor designed to serve its theology. The Sibilline oracles, for instance, are described at Wikipedia as indeterminate as to religious system. This is in contrast with the prophecies of the Bible which cumulatively build up the revelation of God's nature, the plan of redemption through the Messiah, and the future of the entire Creation.The miracles are of a kind that only the true Creator God could do. Manifesting gold dust or bloody tears on a statue is a bit paltry by comparison with making the sun stand still or move backwards, parting the Red Sea, filling empty vessels to the brim with oil, turning large pots of water into (really really good) wine, turning a few fish and loaves of bread into enough to feed thousands, healing usually incurable infirmities, and raising the dead. I just can't see statues drinking milk as comparable. And I doubt you can either.So. I understand why you all want to call all of these things miracles, but it does rather confuse the issue to insist on that term. And I'm not at all sure that manifesting gold dust suspends any natural laws either, or statues weeping tears, bloody or not, and the like. Unusual stuff, yes, but exactly what law is being violated? Moving the sun around on the other hand certainly violates the law of the natural movement of the sun, and raising the dead violates the law that once you're dead you're dead, and so on. True, statues don't normally weep blood or drink milk. How about "lesser" and "greater" miracles or something like that?I agree that the floating ax head is a more trivial event, but on the other hand I'm not sure the demons could produce that one either. And it also had a purpose, to return the ax head to the man who had dropped it in the water, which was a great loss to him. Again, not just a magic trick to wow us, but a demonstration of God's provision and power. 2 Kings 6.Daniel is a huge study but every commentator I'm aware of agrees that the Roman Empire is the fourth kingdom prophesied in the vision of the great and terrible beast, the legs and ten toes of the statue and so on.You DON'T refuse to believe in such things? I simply thought you did. You don't seem at all inclined toward belief but only toward finding reasons against it. I wasn't lying, and now I'm surprised to hear that I'm wrong about this. But I suppose you mean you simply aren't convinced, rather than that you refuse, right? Well, from my point of view the evidence is sufficient which suggests that not finding it sufficient involves refusal. Insult I suppose, lie, no.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

All people have some sense of the Creator God, though a vague and distorted view of Him because our minds are corrupted by the Fall. The Bible was given to us so we can really know Him. And there is no other source of that knowledge, and certainly not of our need of salvation from sin and His provision of that salvation. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Very true. Quite right, as the Bible tells us. God chooses US, we don't choose Him.