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Author Topic:   Is faith the answer to cognitive dissonance?
hotjer
Member (Idle past 4574 days)
Posts: 113
From: Denmark
Joined: 04-02-2010


Message 11 of 227 (557612)
04-27-2010 6:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by killinghurts
04-27-2010 12:25 AM


Intuitively, it is quite obvious.
They rationalize their way through the contradictions, but because of their human defence mechanism cognitive dissonance they are probably not aware of it. If you say this to them they probably just say "yeah, those evilutionist guys are nuts and are possessed by eternal cognitive dissonance because they're afriad of god's almighty power - screw thos who spent their entire life on research. Fucking magnets. They are just lying." (prejudice/sarcasm with some sort of truth I guess).
Of course, cognitive dissonance is not only related to believe in God, but also more mundane stuff, just as the wiki page points out. But when we see cognitive dissonance as a cause to faith I think we are missing a lot of factors in the equation. Intuitively I think t is more related to the phenomeneon of maintaining your belief and faith in God. Might be a quite obvious statement, but that was just my 2 cent of thoughts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by killinghurts, posted 04-27-2010 12:25 AM killinghurts has not replied

  
hotjer
Member (Idle past 4574 days)
Posts: 113
From: Denmark
Joined: 04-02-2010


Message 28 of 227 (557675)
04-27-2010 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Peg
04-27-2010 6:40 AM


Uhh I cannot resist responding neither!
quote:
the evident demonstrations are based on facts. An example that you may understand might be when a marriage proposal takes place. If that proposal is backed up with an engagement ring, then an 'evident deomonstration' has taken place. Though the marriage has not taken place yet, each are assured of the 'future reality' that they will be married.
when it comes to religion, the bible provides the 'evident demonstration' thru its record of historical events linked with Gods people. These are too numerous to mention individually but they include things like prophecies and the arrival of the Messiah. The people who wrote these historical facts were eyewitnesses to them and this is why christians today can put faith in their words.
It does not makes a lot of sense to compare a future event with a past event and especially not when they differs in content — you are taking it out of context a creationist would probably say if it was two different bible passages!
Furthermore, you assume what the authors wrote is correct — the marriage we will eventually see if it is correct or not. Whether or not prophecies were indeed godly inspired prophecies are questioned even among scholars, but that is a whole other topic.
To state the point again: You are unreasonably when you try to compare faith in bible with faith in marriage after a proposal and a ring. They are completely different matters and I also think you misuse the word faith. A more proper word for the faith in marriage would probably be confidence or expectation.
quote:
And if you want to argue that we today cannot know if the bible is factual, let me ask you this...
Do you believe that a man named Shakespear wrote Romeo and Juliet? If you do, how do you know that he did write it?
Actually, among the people who study English literature there is a debate whether or not Shakespeare wrote his own play or if he just copied other plays :-) Just because we credit Shakespeare for the play it does not conclusive means he is accepted as the real author among academics. The same goes for Bohr’s theory of atoms (ref. google it, you could find something interesting).
Just as another said; it is not that important who wrote these thing as what these things content. The bible contains many contradictions; Noah’s flood, demons, splitting the sea, walking on water, turning water into wine, virgin birth (have only happen among non-human animals), living in a fish, stating rabbit is a rodent and bat is a bird etc.. You might think these are not contradiction but that is because of the defence mechanism cognitive dissonance. Now you probably want to rationalize to me or maybe to yourself why these things make sense but as long as we look at the evidence, real scientists, consensus, common sense etc. they are contradictions and that is indeed embarrassing when the bible is such a fundamental part of your life. Of course you do not agree with me, because you see the evidence in another way — because of the mechanism cognitive dissonance! E.g. ;oh no, the flood was real, just look at the evidence.. Okay, you might say that, but 99.99% of all scientists who works in fields such as geology disagree with you (I am quite impressed if you can find a well educated geologist who believes the great flood did happen in the past). It does not make sense to disagree with them, unless you have absolute faith in the bible must be true and BAM; cognitive dissonance!
That was a long rambling.
Cheers Peg. (No hard feelings if I sound disrespectful in any way, since that is not my intention. I apologize to you if that is the case.)
PS: I was not sure whether you believe in the flood or not so I just assumed it based on what I have seen you been writing on this forum. I could definitely find something else equal to this you might believe is true in the bible though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Peg, posted 04-27-2010 6:40 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Peg, posted 04-28-2010 4:58 AM hotjer has replied

  
hotjer
Member (Idle past 4574 days)
Posts: 113
From: Denmark
Joined: 04-02-2010


Message 84 of 227 (557940)
04-28-2010 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Peg
04-28-2010 4:58 AM


yeah Peg, I understand what you think about faith but faith does not start with evidence. For instance, look at the story of Abraham and Isaac; Abraham absurdly believed everything would be okay if he just sacrifised his Son. He had faith in God but he did not have any evidence that everything would end well; that is faith.
Faith in marriage is a bad "example" *cough comparison cough*. I understand you line of thoughts but it is simply not correct. When you have faith in God deliverering a savior to mankind they did not have any evidence, but they had faith. I would recommend you to look into Sren Kierkegaard (Christian existentialist philosoph); genius guy, explains it way better than I will probably be able to ever do.
Hmm you might have a point about miracles, however, it is still in contradiction to whatever we have non-questionable evidence for. But I probably agree with you if we think miracles are likely to happen, then it is not cognitive dissonance, but I am still skeptic to that explanation since I think you believe that because of the bible, shortly; circular logic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Peg, posted 04-28-2010 4:58 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Peg, posted 04-29-2010 6:40 AM hotjer has not replied

  
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