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Author | Topic: Gun Control Again | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Why would you want guns in the hands of a nation that go on regular killing sprees? Why do you want to infringe on the rights of the ammo-sexuals to have an adrenaline rush orgasm every time they hear a loud bang? Guns are just their vibrator toys you know. Sheesh these rights infringing people really get on my nerves ... maybe ... by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Yeah, right. Charles Whitman murdered 16 people from the clock tower on the campus of the University of Texas in Austin in 1966. Poking around a bit on the Internet it's easy to go further back in time. Neinz Schmidt killed 5 at a school in 1913. Mass shootings have increased along with the increase in gun prevalence. And with population growth and growth in social stress factors, like income inequality growth, loss of economic security and good paying jobs, trashing of unions and increased disrespect for working people and unions. We need to look at other factors that differentiate us from other countries that don't have this problem, especially ones that do allow guns and what their restrictions are. Drugs is not so much a cause but a symptom, not just of demoralizing economic\job prospects, but of corporate pharmaceutic greed marketing more drugs as solutions (it would be better if everyone were drug users) and then more drugs to treat the side effects. Impaired driving from prescription pain killers is rising to the level of alcohol abuse. Most gun deaths are suicides and domestic disputes, so if we can reduce those occurrences it will reduce gun deaths. This is a social problem, and cannot be fixed by "market forces" so a capitalistic centric system cannot but fail to deal with the underlying problem as it will just push more "solutions" to symptoms (for profit) rather than treat the real issues. Better medical attention to stress and the resulting health issues would help, and certainly providing universal single payer health, including mental and dental, would reduce stress on families with minimal funds. [/rant] Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
... North Carolina State University insists that they have a basketball rivalry with the University of North Carolina. However that perceived animosity turns out to be a relationship that UNC does not deign to notice or acknowledge. UNC's rivalry is with Duke. It's a 3-way ... Enjoy (Duke alum)by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
It's the DRUGS that are the cause of the violence, ... ... and firing guns releases an adrenaline rush that can be addictive ...
But I also keep mentioning the demoralization of the country as a cause and I think it is. ... Indeed, when half of US workers are paid minimum wage or less it is demoralizing in a grand scale. When you have to work two jobs to make ends meet you don't have time to feel good. That's why the majority of gun deaths are suicides and domestic violence. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Are Americans more mentally ill than the Swiss or Canadians? Possibly. We are certainly under more stress due to high income inequality and low social comforts. They test out happier than Americans too. And guns are appealing as images of "leveling" tools (pun intended). Here's some food for thought:
quote: Details in article It would be interesting to break gun deaths down into Suicide, Domestic abuse and Other. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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It's possible that this turned out exactly the way gun enthusiasts wanted it to, because God forbid anyone get into a confrontation and get his butt whupped. Hate radios finest hour. by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
The official advice for coping with tailgaters is to pull over and let the arsehole past. These are of course the stupid people that pull up behind you and sit for 5 minutes before they consider passing ... even when the highway is completely empty. And pulling over for someone with road rage may not be a good idea either. I usually put on my 4-way blinkers, and they generally back off. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
daily show gun control jessica - Bing video
right on schedule? Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
... The founding fathers never expressed this interest ... And in fact put in the Constitution that the militias were to be organized as needed by the states and used to suppress insurrections rather than instigate them, and that they would be under the command of the state and then ultimately the president.
... and it has never happened in real life. John Brown? There have in fact been many instances of insurrections (see Howard Zinn), but none of them have been with a state militia attacking the federal government. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : clrtyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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(1) make background checks universal to reduce availability to the insane, people with a criminal record or on the terrorist list.
(2) require brief course of instruction by seller on the proper use, storage and handling of the gun. If private sale there needs to be a witness. (3) require insurance with photo ID card to be carried that covers misuse, mishap, accidental discharge, liability, etc etc etc. (4) charge anyone who lends or secretly sells a gun with aiding and abetting a crime if the gun is used in one. This should not be a problem for legitimate, rational people. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
And turn out your headlights ...
Texas Motorist Shoots 6-Year-Old Child After Family Makes Wrong Turn Really.by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Welcome to Oregon and the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation by the brave souls calling themselves "Citizens for Constitutional Freedom" and composed mostly of fundamentalist LDS open-carry nut cases left over from the Cliven Bundy cow grazing rights issue.
Emboldened by lack of prosecution, they have taken over an unmanned (closed for winter) Federal building for a wildlife refuge, with Ammon and Ryan Bundy, the sons of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, among those "in charge" ... and once again promising that gunfire will be met with gunfire. Sadly they are not alone in the "angry white male" militia gun paranoia groups. Amid Armed Oregon Standoff, Report Finds Skyrocketing Number of Anti-Gov’t Militia Groups | Democracy Now!
quote: Yep, it takes real courage to take over an unoccupied wildlife sanctuary. With guns. There are also links not just to a fundamentalist sect of the LDS, but links to the John Birch Society and (gasp) the Koch brothers. SO: (1) is this what the second amendment was intended for, to have well armed militias take over when they feel they have been slighted by the Federal government? OR: (2) is this what the second amendment -- and other sections of the constitution -- was intended to prevent? Take a minute and a deep breath before replying please, and then answer (1) or (2) and why. and let's see how objective we can be about this eh? Enjoy ps the sections of the Constitution that mention militias are:
Article I - The Legislative BranchSection 8 - Powers of Congress "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;"
Article II - The Executive BranchSection 2 - Civilian Power over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments "The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."
Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Not surprisingly to those who know me, I go with option (2), that this is the kind of armed insurrection that the fledgling Federal government envisaged militias organized and trained the way the National Guard is trained and organized, in order to put down insurrections that threatened the sovereignty of the US.
For evidence I refer to the John Brown insurrection and the subsequent action of the Federal government. Note that the real purpose is not to occupy the park, but to cause an armed confrontation that can act as a recruiting tool for other groups and cause an uprising in the west. In this way they are acting the same as middle-east terrorists, the Taliban, and ISIS. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
But don't you know that the 2nd Amendment exists independent and without context to the rest of the Constitution. So the words "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, ..." are imaginary?
#2 Two for two ... Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
It's always struck me as ironic that those who most fanatically cite protecting the US from some sort of tyrannical regime as a reason to have guns are also the most likely to use violence to overthrow (or attempt to overthrow) democratically elected governance that they disagree with. Current example in Oregon with the Bundy mob (I think we can all agree to call it a mob), seizing public land and then claiming it should be turned over to ... the people ... Disagreeing is one thing but threatening the lives of law officials is another.
I'm not a US citizen, I don't share the reverence that many US citizens hold for the US constitution (with sufficient political will any law can be changed, especially one called an "amendment") ... Or the interpretation of it by the Supreme Court returning to previous interpretations. Indeed it can happen, but it may take a loooong time and a lot more incidents involving the loss of innocent lives.
option 2 makes more sense to me. But looking at the wording you cite the specific reference to suppressing insurrections seems most relevant to the question you ask. And what we have in Oregon is a borderline armed insurrection. Whether they are actually dangerous enough to engage with is another question. John Brown attacked rather than occupied. Personally I don't think they are a real danger to anyone but themselves at this point, except that they are setting another precedent for similar actions. The small numbers also indicate low support and low need for engagement -- a single #blacklivesmatter protest draws many more people than they have managed to scrounge up. But another problem here is the death-wish of these extremists, the desire to be martyrs to a (silly) cause. They want confrontation so they can be heroes to followers who will then rise up. This is no different from radical terrorist organizations elsewhere in the world. Time for some alternative action, perhaps arresting Cliven Bundy ... Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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