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Author | Topic: Addiction By Definition | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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jar writes: I see your point. The recovery is recovery of the individual. The addiction is a disease in the brain and thought process of the individual. I don't think you can call any thing an addiction. Religion, alcohol, drugs, gambling ...things are not the addiction. Some religious behavior could be an addiction, misuse of alcohol or gambling or drugs could be an addiction.
Alcohol is not the problem.The problem is the individuals response to alcohol. I would say at this point, however..(Today is #154) that I could very easily label the tendency to gamble and the subsequent addiction in my mind as a demon. I preferred fantasy over reality. I felt entitled to something...be it from society or from God. Granted the addiction was a medical disorder stemming from my willful misuse of a habit. Perhaps I should ask myself some questions.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
MTW writes: Or in how we interpret scripture...to cherry pick into fitting the promise to our own desired end. Interesting line of thought. As a believer, it is necessary that I examine myself. Celebrate Recovery encourages this.
I guess human-reason can be an addiction. That is to say - can we get overly concerned with what WE, according to limited human reason, infer about God? If we, with our limited intellects, choose our intellect, and choose to know better than God then aren't we addicted to moulding God into our own image?MTW writes: So in other words are you saying that we need to beware of reading our own desired answers into the scripture? I have the answer Phat. I have an ability to reason and I can state as someone with that ability, that there is a definite limit to reason. Human-reason can only take us so far but we simply can't understand the actions of an Almighty reasoner.For God's thoughts are like Isaiah says, "as the heavens are higher than the earth", so is His thoughts higher than our thoughts. So when we read something confusing in the bible, God does not want us to jump to conclusions based on limited human reason, nor does He want us to mutilate the bible and doubt what He has said. Beware the addiction of choosing a limited, subjective and fallible intellect over an all-knowing, unlimited, infallible God. As an aside...I firmly believe in the infallibility of scripture provided it is taken in context.
Wiz writes: Hopefully I will ultimately trust Jesus Himself. Perhaps my question to you is this: If God could speak to a human through a donkey, can he speak to us through an atheist? Or are you going to trust the guy that tells you Jesus is Allah, who is Father Christmas and is also a she, that doesn't exist..Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Phat writes:
Seeing as how my topic is about addiction, perhaps we could discuss the idea of religion as a possible addiction. At what point does belief and subsequent action become addictive rather than prescriptive?Tangle writes: Like all addictions, it's when you feel that can't do without it. What is it? The idea of God or God Himself? What would I replace this addiction with?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined:
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Phat bless you with a mighty blessing. Seriously, "good on you". You are a courageous guy, plain and simple. What character you're showing here. Brilliant! I mean that with all my meaning!
For goodness sake, KEEP GOING! God is showing you the way to victory, and it's so obvious He's taking you there!
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined:
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Phat writes: Hopefully I will ultimately trust Jesus Himself. Perhaps my question to you is this: If God could speak to a human through a donkey, can he speak to us through an atheist? I would say IMO, (not that I am any great sage so I'm just answering because you asked) that He can speak through an atheist if what the atheist is saying is not contrary to something He has clearly said. So for example, Galileo, if he was an atheist, was not "wrong" to say that the heavens are not orbiting the earth. (IIRC, my memory is foggy about such things). So it depends on the what the subject is. If it is a spiritual matter, we can't listen to atheists because the NT says "nor can the natural man understand spiritual things for they are foolishness to them, for they are spiritually discerned". That is to say, God imparts revelatory-knowledge to those who are born again of the Holy Spirit, which is not intellectually derived information. So we have to be very careful. There are also human motives very much at play, even within science, great biases. I know an agnostic I am conversing with who can also see this, in his own words he said to me, "they're not allowing a dent in evolution". It's not hard to figure out why, Phat. Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Great questions you should ask yourself.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Phat writes: What is it?The idea of God or God Himself? I have no idea Phat, I think only you can answer that. All I can say is that when you stop thinking about God, praying, attending church and all the paraphenalia of a religious addiction you suddenly liberate a load of time and space for new stuff and you feel responsible for your own life.
What would I replace this addiction with? Fishing. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Seeing as how my topic is about addiction, perhaps we could discuss the idea of religion as a possible addiction. At what point does belief and subsequent action become addictive rather than prescriptive? Well, my two-sense reply is (a) any behavior engaged in that becomes an obsession and disrupts the lives of others could be considered an addiction, and (b) we need to compare this to delusions:
... where there is a world of difference between (2), having a false belief, and (3) ignoring evidence the belief is false. IMHO the concept/s of god/s is non-falsifiable, just certain beliefs (young earth, WW flood, etc) that come from certain interpretations of dogma or the teaching of others. Believing you must pray 3 times a day can be seen as possibly interfering or disrupting the lives of others , but wouldn't be delusional ... unless it can be shown to be false. Likewise, wandering around in a moonstruck haze can be seen as possibly interfering or disrupting the lives of others , but wouldn't be delusional ... unless love can be shown to be false.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Believing you must pray 3 times a day can be seen as possibly interfering or disrupting the lives of others Please explain. If I pray 3 times a day, that will interfere with your life in what way? Disrupts your life in what fashion? Depriving you of the ability to live in a prayer free world? Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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It depends on how you do it. If it needs to be done at a time when you are expected to be in a meeting but instead must be on a prayer rug facing Mecca or if you need to have your serpent with you or make a burnt offering other than microwave popcorn sure it could be disruptive.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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If it needs to be done at a time when you are expected to be in a meeting but instead must be on a prayer rug facing Mecca If you are skipping meetings in order to pray, you are probably going to be let go for missing meetings. As for your comment about serpents, isn't the real probably the pet and not the prayer? I take your comment to mean that generally speaking you agree that there is not all that much substance to the idea that one person praying is an imposition on another persons rights and that the real problem is extreme behavior of the type that would be a problem associated with any activity. If you need to play video games instead of attending a meeting then your video game is an imposition. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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NN writes: I take your comment to mean that generally speaking you agree that there is not all that much substance to the idea that one person praying is an imposition on another persons rights and that the real problem is extreme behavior of the type that would be a problem associated with any activity. Correct. Praying like gambling or eating or drugs or most any THING is not the addiction. When how you perform or use the THING interferes with normal behavior, with other people, with family, with work, with your health then that behavior can be the issue or addiction. It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing...
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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New Cats Eye writes: Furthermore, addiction can be seen as a medical disorder. MRI imaging confirms this.
Addictions are for things that you don't need to live, but you think you need them anyway.I'm glad you found something better. How's it coming along? Day 166 today. Many challenges in life which bring up the repressed feelings. I am unused to allowing feelings to occur...especially when they are painful. I am optimistic for the long term, however. By the way...I saw this in your new topic:
New Cat Sci writes: Can you share what your addiction is? You can PM me if you feel more comfortable. Anyways, my life has been privileged, and I have been successful. And yet, I find myself unhappy because I am battling addiction. It turns out that trying to solve emotional problems with a scientific approach hasn't done me any good over the years, and I am not that well. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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The dictionary defines what recovery means. There are many common delusions in everyday thinking, and they are not limited to mentally ill people--unless a case could be made that since addiction is a medical disorder of the brain,anyone suffering from any addiction is at least mildly mentally ill. I know that for me personally, gambling was most definitely a delusion. My next addiction, emotional codependency, is proving to also be a delusion...though it is harder to let go in this one. I have always thought of myself as an older figure who had the wisdom to rescue younger people and not as one who was emotionally codependent. As my recovery process heals my brain, however...I am seeing that I was in fact delusional in that I saw myself as a rescuer rather than emotionally codependent. Recovery in this issue goes way back to my childhood where i had a Father who was emotionally codependent on me...and I always saw him as my rescuer. 2017 should be a year of further healing, and I look forward to being a stronger mentor rather than a codependent one. The process will take time, however.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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I am having some strange dreams about old unresoved obsessions and compulsions I used to have. It seems as though the healing process goes back in time further and further the longer i am sober. Carnes claims the entire process is 3-5 years.
I certainly hope not, but it makes me realize even more the importance of continuing to take sobriety seriously. My work is twice as hard as it was before---the new Boss demands that we stay busy all of the time, even though after an hour or so of straight customers with 200 dollar orders, one would need a break. Again, I thank God for giving me my job back and realize that without sobriety I couldn't even handle these new challenges. I again see my counselor on thursday. Stay tuned....the healing is only starting. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26 |
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