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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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Of course, based on that logic, Christians should boycott Disney movies, Liquor stores, and marijuana dispensaries...but I hardly see that happening.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What?
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Gays are singling themselves out By asking for equal access to goods and services as straight people have? Doesn't sound like singling themselves out.
Christians are responding to their provocations. Christians of various stripes have been provoking gays for a long time. They gays provocation is 'may I have access to your goods and services the same as a straight person would, please?'
The Christian businesses have been there for years and along comes this law that contradicts basic Christian belief. Even if that were true, gays have been there for years and years and were unprotected by laws in contradiction to western beliefs. The laws have been around for like a decade (Oregon passed its law in 2007 and gave businesses nearly a year to adopt - the shop that got sued for a six figure amount opened AFTER the law was passed).
They are just going along minding their own business when suddenly they are faced with choosing between their faith and their livelihood They've had plenty of time, they were given 9 months notice, many bakers manage to get by without doing wedding cakes.
So your solution is for them to give up their livelihood which has been established for years. Your solution is for gays to give up their freedoms, dignity and equality. I think these outweigh the concerns of the bakers. Can you tell me why they shouldn't?
Perhaps it will thrill you to know that that is probably what is going to happen in many cases, unjust though it is. I think any injustice for bakers is outweighed by the injustice being done to gays. Do you agree that your right to life overrides my right to kill you for religious reasons? Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
Not at all. They aren't asking for anything that anybody else isn't entitled to.
Gays are singling themselves out.... Faith writes:
It's not a basic Christian belief. It's a whacko fringe belief.
The Christian businesses have been there for years and along comes this law that contradicts basic Christian belief. Faith writes:
Yes, the same as the slave owners were asked to give up their livelihood.
So your solution is for them to give up their livelihood which has been established for years. Faith writes:
That's what I said. If you think you're aiding and abetting a sinner, stop doing it. Don't compound the offense by breaking the law.
Oh and our eye doesn't offend us because we're in the right. The offensive eye is sin and you among others should pluck it out.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Not at all. They aren't asking for anything that anybody else isn't entitled to. No, they are asking for something THEY aren't entitled to. Marriage was designed for heterosexuals, who are capable of becoming one flesh, as objectively expressed in the conception of children who are the one flesh composed of their parents' flesh. You are the one in sin. Pluck out your eye already. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Faith writes: As usual you are making garbage out of the point. Meaning you don't have an answer again?
Jesus was always kind to sinners. What Jesus never did was treat sinners as not sinners, or advocate disobeying God's laws. He might do all kinds of things for gays,... Yeah, he'd bake 'em a cake and sing at the reception.
...but He would not support their marrying because that is a violation of God's law. Hmmm, interesting point. Would Jesus support same sex marriage? I don't know, the Bible writers didn't include any stories that tell us. Certainly if someone like Jesus, who was all about love and understanding, were alive today he would support it. That sort of brings us to the thread's title, Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity. Marriage is an institution that spans all religions and cultures, so how could gay marriage be an attack on one single religion? Why isn't gay marriage an attack on Islam or Buddhism or Judaism? --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Faith writes: As far as the baker's conscience goes, both the writing on the cake, and the wedding cake in the context defined, affirm the legitimacy of gay marriage, which is THE reason for refusing either of them. What interaction with a gay couple wouldn't be interpreted as affirming the legitimacy of gay marriage? How is letting them in the store or saying hello to them on the street not affirming gay marriage? Once you've singled them out for special treatment there's nowhere to draw the line. Writing a message is the only objection that makes sense. One shouldn't be compelled to write things one doesn't believe. --Percy
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Perhaps you should ponder your last question: why isn't it? Why is it only Christian wedding services that are sued? Hm?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Under the law, they are. YOU are not entitled to deny it to them.
No, they are asking for something THEY aren't entitled to. Faith writes:
That's only your belief, and an empty one at that. You are not entitled to break the law for the sake of a belief - ESPECIALLY when it would be so easy to just give up your slaves.
Marriage was designed for heterosexuals, who are capable of becoming one flesh, as objectively expressed in the conception of children who are the one flesh composed of their parents' flesh. Faith writes:
ALL have sinned.
You are the one in sin. Pluck out your eye already.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: In other words gays should get back in the closet.
quote: Taking your earlier words to heart I must do you the kindness of pointing out that this is a lie. The laws - State laws - you are complaining about have mostly been around for a while and do not "contradict basic Christian belief". You know this.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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Would Jesus support same sex marriage? I don't know, the Bible writers didn't include any stories that tell us. Not explicitly. But Paul points out that
quote: quote: quote: after all:
quote: And thus one should be chaste. It is better to be unmarried and chaste says Paul:
quote: Of course, fornication is worse than unchastity so:
quote: So marriage isn't good. It's just better than being horny and screwing around. So it seems to me, although Paul would disagree specifically through special pleading perhaps, that his general argument is that gays should marry because it is better for a gay to be in a monogomous relationships where they promise in front of god to remain so than for them to tied by no vows and live in fornication. Being gay and a fornicator is surely doubly sinful than just being one or the other. As Paul later says:
quote: If you were called to find men attractive then you must abide by that, and if you cannot contain your lusts, you should marry as living a sin with one is better than fornicating with many.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
In other words gays should get back in the closet. No, they should stop doing things to provoke Chrisitans. Otherwise they can do what they want as always.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Obviously it's impossible to keep up a debate when one party makes nonsensical illogical posts such as yours.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
It is certainly not clear that your idea of "provocation" excludes being openly gay - with the whole idea that being gay is sinful. And even if you do not take that attitude, other "Christians" may well.
I also note no sign that you repent of your sin.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
On the contrary, it should be fairly easy to point out the logic errors if they're there. But you can't, can you? So you just run away.
Obviously it's impossible to keep up a debate when one party makes nonsensical illogical posts such as yours.
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