Atheism Cannot Rationally Explain Morals.

Then on what grounds can you impose your morality on someone else?--------------------------------You keep using harm as a major part of your argument, but harm is actually not a good indicator of morality. For example, a dentist will harm you when he pulls your tooth out - then he harms you again when he gives you the bill. A professional boxer will get in a ring and bash someone in order to get money to provide food and shelter for his family. A soldier will shoot an opponent dead. A judge will harm you when he takes your licence away for six months for drink-driving. A policeman will harm you when he hands you a $300 ticket for speeding.Then their are cases likes Adolf Hitler, who considered his moral duty to kill millions of Jews; or the Khmer Rouge, who tortured and murdered millions of their own citizens for the sake of equality. What? Are the police aware that you hurt people until they scream and insist you stop?

Perhaps you need to get out more."Let me summarise my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear - and these are basically Darwin's views. There are no gods, no purposes, no goal-directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death ... There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning in life" - William Provine, (a late) atheist and evolutionary scientist. Oh, now that sounds very scientific! I hope the folks who came up with those ratings used an approved happiness meter (aka a Happinometer).

I agree. If my God doesn't exist, then I'm talking complete nonsense and my God's morality (and thus, mine) is as meaningless as anyone else's.

You make a good point. Unfortunately, I can't speak for "my god" with respect to what he thinks about meaning. But I am of the opinion that only immortality gives life meaning, and since God is immortal, he has at least some chance of finding meaning.

An evolved mind can create a delusion of meaning, but it can't create meaning. You can create a delusion that the Tooth Fairy exists, but you can't create a Tooth Fairy.

Prove that it is immoral.

Darwinism: Science or Naturalistic Philosophy? April 30, 1994

I can't; but (assuming that my God exists) I don't have to prove that any of God's judgements are righteous and just ... I only have to accept them as such. I would imagine not even God can prove to us that his morality is perfect. But he doesn't have to; he doesn't have to explain his morality or his judgements to anyone. The Boss doesn't need our approval.

I'm not required to prove the points you suggested because I put myself in the same boat as everyone else - ie, I can't prove that my code of morality is any more correct than anyone else's. Never said I could. No, I don't think you can - because such facts would be nigh on impossible to get. For starters, how could a significant number of career criminals be surveyed if the total number of career criminals is unknown? And how does one go about finding and identifying career criminals, let alone getting them to talk to about their beliefs? They all don't have criminal records, you know; or records that indicate they are careerists. If you visit a jail, most of the inmates aren't career criminals and those that are, how do you identify them? Are they going to put up their hand and say, "I'm a career criminal'? There will be some career criminals in jail who are easy to identify from their records, but there could be a lot who can't be identified as such. Someone serving a life sentence is not necessarily a career criminal, because their crime might be the only crime they've ever committed in their life. Besides, most career criminals are probably not in jail at any one time, but roaming the streets. Furthermore, such surveys would have to carried out in a significant number of countries from around the world.Good luck with that ... You are equating morality with survival. This is no different to a rat learning that some things enhance survival and some things don't - that isn't morality.And you haven't addressed my point from the previous post: If a decrease in morality results in a decrease in the survival chances of humans, so what? Humans don't need to survive, so there is no need for morality.

Prove that it's a man-made religion.

It's not "abstract" at all - if it can be established from a exchange of rational ideas that one opinion is right and the other is wrong, then, quiet clearly, the right opinion is superior to the wrong opinion.

Perhaps you are right ... which religion did he follow? Please don't say Catholicism.Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

"Evolution is the greatest engine of atheism ever invented" - William Provine (late evolutionary scientist and now a reformed atheist)

Your answer offers nothing in the way of a solution as to how one can prove a certain moral is correct. Consensus proves nothing in this respect. All concensus does is provide the power for a certain code of morality to become enshrined in law which allows that code of morality to then be imposed on others. If a society on one side of the planet outlaws same-sex marriage and a society on the other side of the planet allows same-sex marriage, how do you determine which law is correct? Billions of Hindus believe it is immoral to kill a cow and eat it, but billions of Westerners say it isn't immoral. How do you determine which opinion is correct?In ancient Roman society, it was not considered immoral to feed Christians to lions. In today's Roman society, it is considered immoral to feed Christians to lions. How do you prove which society was/is morally correct?If one society approves of euthanasia and another society doesn't, how do you prove which society is morally correct? In other words, a society's code of morality is no easier to prove correctthan an individual's code of morality. Big deal. Adolf Hitler probably said the same thing.

I can demonstrate my point by using The Parable of the Empty Box:An empty box is an empty box. Only a deluded/dysfunctional mind sees something in an empty box. This is a very deep concept, so don't get discouraged if you don't initially understand it. But persevere and keep thinking about it - finally the penny will drop.Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.