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Author | Topic: The TRVE history of the Flood... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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There's no point in proposing a local flood, we aren't buying it. That's the difference: science goes where the evidence is.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I became a Bible believer on the basis of the evidence that God inspired it. That means any evidence that contradicts it is wrong. When it comes to the historical sciences there is no way to verify your conclusions anyway. It's not really science. REAL science makes REAL use of REAL evidence, and that can't be said for the sciences that interpret the past. But the Bible is God's own word to the human race. On the basis of the evidence for that I know there was a worldwide Flood and it's you who are in the dark. Your local flood is silly, all those revisionist claims are silly.
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CRR Member (Idle past 2273 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
There's no point in proposing a local flood, we aren't buying it.
If it was a local flood there would have been no need for a huge boat. Noah and his family could have simply walked out of the potential flood area and enough animals would have survived in unflooded areas to repopulate.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: But the Bible is God's own word to the human race. Yet it seems that God could not even get the story straight in her own words. She tells two mutually exclusive and contradictory accounts. The God you market is simply not a reliable witness.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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I became a Bible believer on the basis of the evidence that God inspired it. That means any evidence that contradicts it is wrong. That, or your belief is wrong.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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When it comes to the historical sciences there is no way to verify your conclusions anyway. It's not really science. REAL science makes REAL use of REAL evidence, and that can't be said for the sciences that interpret the past. Any field that follows the scientific method is a real science whether it contradicts the bible or not. Creationists are trying to destroy the reputation of "historical sciences" because of their religious beliefs, not because of some actual faults in those sciences. Given that, its no wonder we accuse creationists of being anti-science.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What Faith means is that there is no way she can verify our conclusions. Of course, for the rest of the world there certainly are ways to test and verify conclusions. Those methods have been pointed out to here and in fact for several hundred years every one of those methods have shown that reality is correct and the Bible is false.
That is the reality she avoids dealing with. Fact: The Biblical Flood is a myth. Fact: The Garden of Eden is a myth. Fact: Young Earth is a fantasy.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Fact: Young Earth is a Fixed it for you.
"A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness: delusions of persecution." Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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CRR Member (Idle past 2273 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
Fact: The theory of evolution is a delusion.
Fixed it for you. N-Joi
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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razd writes: Fact: Young Earth is a Fixed it for you. "A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness: delusions of persecution." Fact: The theory of evolution is a delusion.
Fixed it for you. Except evolution is not a belief (it is accepted science theory based on fact), nor is it "strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence" -- first, there is no invalidating evidence and second, if you have a better theory that explains all the evidence, I'm all ears. YEC, on the other hand is a false belief held onto with religious fervor in spite of the invalidating evidence ... or do you want to return to Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 and reply to the second set of evidence there -- you haven't gotten far against the Bristlecone Pine data, and that is just the beginning of the evidence that eviscerates a young earth belief. The natural history of the earth does not show any evidence of a world wide flood some 4500 +/- years ago. The Bristlecone Pines alone prove that, located on top of mountains, with some dead trunks still rooted in the ground that show 7,000 growth rings and a dendrochronology that uses wood samples lying on the ground within the grove, samples that would have floated away in a flood, and trees that show continuous growth for over 8,000 years. You are one of the rare intelligent creationist debaters here, imho, but I"m sorry, the earth is old, very very old, and evolution is real: we can find nested hierarchies all over the fossil and genetic record, but they all keep extending back in time, rather than terminating abruptly all at one time. That is what the evidence shows. Nested clades show the cat kind diversification and the dog kind diversification, but they also show the carnivore kind diversification that includes both cat and dog, but also bears, and then the mammal kind that includes them and all other mammals, including people. This is shown in both the fossil record and the genetic record, two independent means to arrive at the same conclusions -- consilience that did not have to occur in design, but which is necessary for evolution to be valid. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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CRR Member (Idle past 2273 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
Definition of belief
1: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing her belief in God a belief in democracy I bought the table in the belief that it was an antique. contrary to popular belief 2: something that is accepted, considered to be true, or held as an opinion : something believed an individual's religious or political beliefs; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group the beliefs of the Catholic Church 3: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence belief in the validity of scientific statements Yes, you DO believe in evolution. Some people might believe in something " in spite of invalidating evidence" but that does not invalidate any of the other definitions.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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3: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence belief in the validity of scientific statements Yes, you DO believe in evolution. Ok, I "believe" that objective empirical evidence is representative of reality, and that such evidence can be used to test the validity of theories ... because the alternative is that everything is imaginary ... ... but that still does not make it "A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence ... " - because it is supported by the evidence, rather than invalidated. Your definition also says at the bottom:
quote: So belief (faith) in god is different from belief (credence) in theories based on evidence. So I would go with the credence synonym. Curiously my definition website gives a different take:
quote: Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Yes, you DO believe in evolution. I don't say that I believe in evolution. I know that species evolve because they are not static. It is not something that I simply believe in like my religious beliefs.
How they evolve is a different question, tho. I believe that the Theory of Evolution properly explains how species evolve and I know that it is the best explanation that we currently have.
Some people might believe in something " in spite of invalidating evidence" but that does not invalidate any of the other definitions. I reserve the word "belief" for things that I don't know, and I know that the animals are evolving. I don't just believe it, it is blatantly obvious that they do. Now, whether or not the ToE is correct does take some belief - but it's not much...
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What we actually see is MICROEVOLUTION. I bet you haven't even read any of my threads about how evolution defeats evolution, have you? The ToE can't be shown it can only be believed.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
What we actually see is MICROEVOLUTION. All evolution is microevolution, ALL evolution occurs within breeding populations. Evolution and the accumulation of traits over successive generations is called anagenesis. When this occurs in different daughter populations isolated from each other, the accumulated changes will necessarily be different because (a) they will have different mutations and (b) the ecology they live would be different. This results results in speciation, or cladogenesis. Anagenesis and cladogenesis are MACROEVOLUTION -- the effect of evolution over generations.
... The ToE can't be shown it can only be believed. No Faith. The ToE explains the evidence: The Theory of Evolution (ToE), stated in simple terms, is that the process of anagenesis, and the process of cladogenesis, are sufficient to explain the diversity of life as we know it, from the fossil record, from the genetic record, from the historic record, and from everyday record of the life we observe in the world all around us. It doesn't have to be believed, it can be assessed based on it's ability to explain the evidence. It hasn't failed yet. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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