Christianity and the End Times

But, of course the Fasces was NOT the symbol of Fascism except in the minds of those unconnected from reality but rather adopted by fascism; it was a common historical devise that symbolized strength and unity. And those two features, strength through unity symbolize the intent of the United States of America.And Washington is not presented as God except in the minds of those disassociated from reality in the fresco at the Capitol. And so yet again, all you have is the dogma of your Cult.Cahn may just be ignorant but those who accept his nonsense must be willfully ignorant.

And the prophesy in Revelations referred to a time almost 2000 years ago.It was, as only makes sense, written for the audience alive at the time it was written.Everything in Revelation was to have happened over 1900 years ago.

But if we can ignore the religious nutjobs and discount the idiots who support faith based and fantasy over reality thinking we sure would have a better chance.It's pretty clear if humanity is to succeed only humanity will do it.

So far there is no evidence of any prophecy ever getting fulfilled by anything but self fulfillment or fantasy.But it's unlikely the US could really compete if faced by a combination or coalition of the other modern nations like China or the EU.

And all stuff that was supposed to happen about 1900 years ago.

Would anyone even notice?

But there is nothing in 2 Thessalonians to support truth being some living Jesus Christ. That is simply cult dogma.The whole context of 2 Thessalonians is on doing and work, not belief or simple exhortation.

quote:

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1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

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2 Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

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3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;

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4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

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5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

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6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

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7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

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8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

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9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

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10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

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11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

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12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

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2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

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2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

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3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

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4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

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5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

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6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

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7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

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8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

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9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

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10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

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11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

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12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

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13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

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14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

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15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

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16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

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17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

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3 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:

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2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

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3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

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4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.

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5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.

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6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

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7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

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8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:

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9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.

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10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

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11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.

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12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

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13 But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.

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14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

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15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

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16 Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord be with you all.

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17 The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.

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18 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

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2 Thess is pretty short so it makes little sense to try to pull proof texts out of context UNLESS the intent is to support some predetermined dogma rather than what 2 Thess actually says.Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

If you read ALL of 2 Thessalonians Truth refers to good behavior, to what Jesus taught, to work and proper behavior.The delusion sent is thinking that you don't have to behave and work.But you only get the idea that 12 refers to belief when you take it out of context.You tend to stop reading and thinking when you get to the answer you want, but there are three chapters to 2 Thessalonians and the answers to your questions are included in what is actually written in chapter 2 & 3.

Not true Faith, rather that is how the dogma of your cult decided it should be read. BUT, and it is a big but, that is not what the Bible says.You and your cult always deny what is actually written in the Bible and instead create a mythical Bible as you wish it were actually written.

But scripture is also very clear that it was supposed to have happened about 1900 years ago.It failed.It has been a failed prophecy ever since.

Correct. And the Bible also contains factual errors, contradictions and multiple mutually exclusive versions of many of the stories and events. Yes, all of he evidence shows that humans made up GOD.I do not know of anyway anyone living could honestly answer the question "does GOD exist?" Come on Phat, you really can't be that dense. I have posted many times about what I believe. You have read those posts and responded to those posts. Again, are you really that dense? I claim to be an Episcopalian because I am a registered member of the Episcopal Church and have been for about three quarters of a century.But perhaps the difference is that I actually try to be honest and am not afraid to be honest.I understand that belief and know are not synonymous.I understand that reality trumps fantasy.I understand that what is actually written in the Bible stories is what is actually written in those Bible stories.I admit that the God character in the stories is described differently and not uniformly in the different stories.I admit that there are lots and lots and lots of gods described down through human history AND each and every single one of those gods is equally valid based on the fact that there is no evidence to support the existence of any of them.I understand that had I been born in a different family I would most likely not be an Episcopalian or even a Christian.I understand that religion is primarily a political and cultural creation and that it is very personal and often a hive affectation; members of the hive tend to stick together and market the same dogma. (one of the things I do like about the Episcopal dogma is that it is filled with disagreement and controversy and thus not uniform or universal)The reality is that my choice of religion is primarily just such a hive infection; I am a Christian because my family were Christian and an Episcopalian because I was initially baptized and admitted into the Episcopal Communion and was primarily educated in an Episcopal School setting.But I remain a Christian Episcopalian because in my studies of other paths I have not found one that offered a better life path lesson and that had features that could not be incorporated under the umbrella of Episcopal Doctrine.Being charged to try to do good is not really all that bad a path to follow and it does not much matter whether the charge is innate or from a fellow human like Jesus or the Buddha or Muhammad or Confucius or Lao Tzu or from a spiritual being like Raven or GOD or Ganesha.AbE: stuff Phat added in another message. I have never posted about myself or anyone else getting together to admire the Bishops Robes but learning the symbolism of vestments is another way to further someone's education. Ignorance should always be faced with reality and that includes the symbolism and shorthand speech we often use within a given community. In the Episcopal Church (as well as many other chapters there are symbols that were meant to act a clues for contemplation. In the Episcopal Tradition, those symbols and their meaning and purpose are part of the basic education. Each is meant as a reminder to the viewer of either the duties of the wearer in the case of vestments or the duties of the viewer in examples like the images in stained glass windows.The vestments are not meant to be admired but rather are reminders to the wearer of the responsibilities assumed by the position.And about the Book of Common Prayer.The Book of Common Prayer actually predates the Authorized King James Bible. It to has a form and function directly related to the Bible and Christianity. It is a daily study guide and lesson plan built around a three year cycle to lead the communion through the Bible every three years.But it is even more.It also included the basic format for each of the rites (the steps) that a Christian takes during his ministry. It is a guide through the day, every day, from beginning each new morning with Morning Prayer to ending each day with the reflection on the day past and plans for the morrow found in Evening Prayer. It includes the charges on the adults and the expectations on the children. It is about growth and learning and honesty and reflection.It contains far more than just prayer though and begins with the explanation of the Church Year but then moves on to the personal worship, the Daily Offices that are meant primarily for individual or family use. In growing up we held Morning Prayer and Evening Prayer several times a week at home.The Book of Common Prayer also includes many of the Historical Documents of basic Christianity as well as a Lectionary.So, as you see, it is far more than simply reading jointly from the Book of Common Prayer, it is far more a study guide and education in the meanings, origin, history and function of Christianity itself.Edited by jar, : See AbE:

Not true Faith. Adam was told that he would die the very day he disobeyed and of course that too never happened. God was simply wrong at best or lying. Not true Faith, they most certainly were not originally mortal or the God character in the story is just plain stupid and dishonest since there was a Tree of Life created that God feared Adam & Eve would eat from and then become immortal.You really, and your cult, do not believe a thing the Bible says or is it that you have never read it?

You're just making shit up again Faith, writing your own version of the Bible. There is absolutely nothing in Genesis 2&3 to support that utter nonsense and it's just more evidence of the Apologist tactic of making shit up to make the Bible reflect the dogma of their Cult and fantasy instead of reality.Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

No, they created your cult by perverting and misusing and misrepresenting what is actually written as I have said repeatedly. Yet what is actually written in the Bible stories refutes your beliefs which is why your and your cult take passages out of context and misrepresent what is actually written. Yes, you do seem to take your cues not from the Bible or what is actually written but rather from the cult dogma marketers you read and listen to.

The fact that there are lots of folk who buy the Cult Dogma does not change it from just being dogma and NOT what is actually written in the Bible.