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Author | Topic: Gun Control III | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I simply thought it odd that New York would have a lower gun death rate than a sparsely populated state like Wyoming, that's all. No need for fancy speculation.
You seem to have made your point and that's fine with me, only I haven't yet thought it all through so that could be a false impression. I'm happy if you're right, I just need to think it through and I don't know when I'll get to it.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
This is just too tediously ridiculous. Yes I may not get to check it out, but I can't totally agree with you unless I do. You should just accept that I grant it looks like you answered me sufficiently. I can't say more than that at the moment. As for the rest you are just piling weird misinterpretations one on top of another. It's too much to try to answer you right now. Who knows, I do sometimes get a second wind so I may come back to it. Your fancy speculations were about my motivations as usual, I don't remember what though, not worth checking.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Your tables generally show that there are more gun deaths in densely populated areas. What does that have to do with my argument that more people carrying guns would make people safer in the circumstances of these mass shootings?
Based on your tables I have no reason to doubt your conclusion that New York has fewer gun deaths than a sparsely populated state like Wyoming, and that was the comparison in my mind, but unless I analyze it all very carefully I'm not yet convinced my initial concern was wrong. As I recall I didn't even argue that I was sure it was right, it just struck me as odd and that, really and truly, is all. If I do go on to try to argue the same thing again without more reason to do so, then call me on it. I'm not biding my time at all, I just don't know at this point and don't want to commit to a position yet. When it comes to YEC arguments I do keep coming back to the same argument over and over, because I know it's basically true no matter what, but I don't have any reason to do that with this particular argument. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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Perhaps you are right, I don't know and I don't have the energy to try to find out. Please just ignore whatever I've said, I have to stop posting, I'm tired, I feel rotten, I can't deal with any of this right now although I keep trying. I have to stop. Thanks.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Supporting the right to carry arms is not the same thing as supporting "violence." If anything it could be argued that it is the reverse, that is, supporting the means to prevent violence. No matter what the statistics say about probabilities, the actual motivation by individuals for the second amendment is as much to prevent violence as provide means of self defense.
However, Jesus said two swords for the whole group was enough, not a huge support for carrying arms. But it is SOME support. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Just as you say Jesus bringing a sword not peace is not about self-defense, neither is turning the other cheek about self-defense. Turning the other cheek is about being insulted -- that's what a slap on the cheek meant. It is not a threat to your life. Therefore you can't say that turning the other cheek is an argument against self-defense.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Hey you're right. I didn't know that was the context, I always thought it was about being insulted. So it is about personal injury -- although the examples are not life-threatening, losing an eye or a tooth.
So it is about non-retaliation. But on a personal level. Jesus was always talking to individuals and that often gets confused with government in these discussions. We shouldn't defend ourselves personally, but what about defending our country, our neighbors, our family etc. Jesus doesn't speak on that level.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No, you just like your own interpretations, I don't get it wrong very often at all.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Here's a typical commentary from Got Questions on that command, and I didn't get it all that wrong, just hadn't remembered the context. But as I said it's about personal retaliation, not self defense in serious life-threatening situations.
To "turn the other cheek" does not imply pacifism, nor does it mean we place ourselves or others in mortal danger. Like the principle of the eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth in Matthew 5:38, turning the other cheek refers to personal retaliation, not criminal offenses or acts of military aggression. Clearly, Jesus did not mean to negate all God’s laws and injunctions protecting us against violent crime or invading armies. Rather, Jesus is speaking here of the principle of non-retaliation to affronts against our own dignity, as well as lawsuits to gain one’s personal assets (v. 40), infringements on one’s liberty (v. 41), and violations of property rights (v. 42). He was calling for a full surrender of all personal rights. Turns out it IS about being insulted too. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Thanks but no thanks. Unbelievers do not know how to read the Bible and even if I get stuff out of context sometimes, overall believers have the wherewithal to understand God's word and unbelievers don't. And when I point to my knowledge and the history of theology IT OUGHT TO BE RESPECTED. It's not mindless bragging. So thanks but no thanks.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You don't know how to read the Bible, sorry.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Turns out I wasn't wrong.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Quote all you like, you don't know how to read it.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It's unbelievers who are the arrogant ones who think they can better understand God's word against the entire history of the Church. THAT is the real arrogance here.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No. I don't think it condemns carrying them according to the second amendment, that's all.
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