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Author | Topic: Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
A body of knowledge or dogma has nothing to do with free will. Truth is truth. Free will applies to personal choices of many kinds but not the right to argue with the body of knowledge revealed by God. If you have a different opinion then you don't belong with those who subscribe to the particular body of knowledge, you belong with others who agree with you..
I'm sure you'd all agree that you can't change an established scientific theory to suit yourself, so why should you think a person could change an established revelation from God to suit oneself? If Jesus rose from the dead according to the body of dogma or knowledge, and you think he didn't, you belong somewhere other than the church that affirms that he rose from the dead. Same if the church affirms Biblical inerrancy and you don't. You don't belong in that church. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Not to suit oneself, to suit reality. If the "established" revelation doesn't match reality, then the revelation has been misinterpreted. ...why should you think a person could change an established revelation from God to suit oneself?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Well it's you who are defining the "reality" and if it disagrees with the church's established Confession of Faith which is a definition of reality also, then you don't belong in that church. It is a Confession of Faith that spells out the dogma or body of knowledge for an entire denomination. If you don't like it go start your own denomination.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
It's objective observation that defines reality.
Well it's you who are defining the "reality"... Faith writes:
Each church can not have its own definition of reality. ... if it disagrees with the church's established Confession of Faith which is a definition of reality also, then you don't belong in that church. Edited by ringo, : Fixed quote.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It's you defining the "objective observation" and traditional Christians find your definition to be false. Sure we can have our own definition of reality. The only question is which one is really the definition of reality. I accept a certain definition handed down through history. You are free to disagree but you have to start your own denomination since you disagree with the traditional understanding. I'll stick to mine, you are welcome to yours. Enjoy.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
They're wrong.
It's you defining the "objective observation" and traditional Christians find your definition to be false. Faith writes:
On the contrary, any denomination can accept objective reality and reject superstition. Even your cult could do that. Christians and Muslims and Buddhists and atheists all accept objective reality. You are free to disagree but you have to start your own denomination since you disagree with the traditional understanding.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: That’s funny since you feel free to change the Bible to suit yourself. It’s also funny since science doesn’t require you to believe even established theories. You can’t pretend it says something other than it does, but you can disagree with it.
quote: Let us note that Biblical Inerrancy is a far less important doctrine to Christianity in general than the Resurrection. Let us also note that the use of disciplinary action to compel belief on pain of expulsion is a rather questionable idea anyway. And also let us note that Biblical Inerrancy is easily seen to be false. Remember your last thread on the subject: Bible Inerrancy stands against all objections (which could more accurately be titled Biblical Inerrancy falls flat on its face)
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: I cant afford to embrace fantasy...i need real assurance. I suppose you recognise the irony there? Is it cruel to point out that by your own belief system it is your god that has put you in this situation? Look, all this bollocks apart, I wish you well tomorrow, for now you have to put your trust in your surgeon. Bon chance, matelot.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Im at my sisters recovering. Ths surgery went well...no complications and no need for face down medical equipment needed. I prayed for the surgical staff before going in. the anesthetic has not worn off yet...so i anticipate mild discomfort for a day or two.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
funny since you feel free to change the Bible to suit yourself. Too bad I have to keep correcting such a false accusation. No, my view of the Bible is the orthodox traditional view. I rely on orthodox traditional teachers and preachers, theologians and apologists, to keep me on track.
It’s also funny since science doesn’t require you to believe even established theories. You can’t pretend it says something other than it does, but you can disagree with it. Not if you're a scientist in that field you can't if you expect to get your work recognized. Of course I don't have that handicap. I feel completely free to disagree with the Theory of Evolution and Old Earthism, but just as with Biblical dogma as I've been explaining, that puts me outside the orthodox community of those who subscribe to them. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Glad to hear about the successful surgery. Why did you need it? That is, what was wrong with your eye?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: It certainly isn’t false.
quote: Because nobody has heard of Albert Einstein.... Seriously, it is possible to get recognition by going against established theory. You just need a very strong case. And the payoff can be really high.More, that really only applies to strongly established theories - physicists can get papers published proposing alternatives to Dark Matter, for instance. It’s bad methodology more than unorthodox conclusions that tend to get scientists in trouble. quote: But you get in worse trouble for making false claims, employing poor reasoning and insisting that your arguments are good even when it has been shown that they are not.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Oh don't be such a silly pedant. Of course scientific theories can be overturned under the right circumstances, but not by the average scientist doing average work within the field. And of course no analogy is going to be perfect since the Bible is the only absolute inerrant truth that exists.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: It is neither silly nor pedantic to point out that there is no analogy. A scientist is not expelled from science simply for unorthodox beliefs. There are no scientific theories that must be believed.
quote: And there you go making false claims again. The Bible is not inerrant. Remember your utter failure to defend it ? I’ve already linked to the thread today and I’ll do it again if I must.
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8
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Based on what? A bunch of young guys coming back late from a church gathering staging this thing? For whom? Phat's report shows no such nonsense. It only takes one person to throw a voice. One young person, looking for attention, that's all that's required here. I don't expect you to agree, but surely you can appreciate that from my perspective that sounds much more believable than literal demons. I don't find Phat's anecdote particularly compelling.
I was alone in my apartment at night. Who would be throwing the voice? No-one. If you were alone, we can safely rule out ventriloquism in your example.
I'm guessing that the voices wouldn't have been audible to anyone else, but I have no way of knowing. I'm guessing that too. Mutate and SurviveOn two occasions I have been asked, — "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
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