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Author Topic:   I don´t know what I am doing
phoenix
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 18 (111851)
05-31-2004 2:42 PM


Howdy. I have no idea what I am doing here, but I signed up because I was curious. Anyone want to shed a little light on the deal here for me?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by mike the wiz, posted 05-31-2004 2:53 PM phoenix has replied
 Message 3 by crashfrog, posted 06-01-2004 12:41 AM phoenix has replied
 Message 4 by NosyNed, posted 06-01-2004 3:02 AM phoenix has not replied

mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4750
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 2 of 18 (111853)
05-31-2004 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by phoenix
05-31-2004 2:42 PM


Well, the deal is we yap about evolution Theory and creationism. Ofcourse, unfortunately you can only be evolutionist, creationist, or neutral.
If you're evolutionist, you believe the scientific Theory of Evolution. (ToE).
If you're Creationist you believe that evolution didn't happen, and take the biblical stance of creation, believing there has been no evolution.
If you are neutral you are uncertain of either. The problem is that it is hard to define creationist. For example, if one believes that God "used" evolution, then surely he is somewhat creationist?
I myself believe the Big Bang was the creation event. So what am I, I'm either put in the bongo section or declare confusion. (neutral).
Edit: Darn double darn, another editing job!!!
Welcome to the forum. Are you atheist or agnostic or a believer? (Another can of worms)
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 05-31-2004 01:55 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by phoenix, posted 05-31-2004 2:42 PM phoenix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by phoenix, posted 06-01-2004 12:37 PM mike the wiz has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 3 of 18 (111950)
06-01-2004 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by phoenix
05-31-2004 2:42 PM


Anyone want to shed a little light on the deal here for me?
It's pretty simple. There's this scientific model that explains the diverse forms of life on Earth.
There's this book - maybe you've heard about it, it's called "the Bible" - and apparently, some people think it's a true story or something.
The model and the book don't agree. Here, we talk about which one - the model or the book - is most likely to be right.
Seriously, did you miss the name of the site or something? I think it pretty much says it all: "evolution versus creation." (Or vise-versa.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by phoenix, posted 05-31-2004 2:42 PM phoenix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by phoenix, posted 06-01-2004 12:42 PM crashfrog has replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 4 of 18 (111964)
06-01-2004 3:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by phoenix
05-31-2004 2:42 PM


Some more?
Mike calls himself a "creationist". That isn't a useful way to use the word.
All Christians (I think) believe that God created the universe. But many would be incensed to be called a "creationist".
Most of the time here, it means what others call "scientific creationist". That is, those who want to force a religious viewpoint into the science classroom.
Another word is "literalist". These folks can get a lot of Christians pretty pissed at them. They claim that if the entire Bible isn't literally true then the whole thing is bunk. Of course it is obvious to most Christians that there are chunks that are not literally true, specically Genesis. To have the literlists trying to force Christianity into this rediculous position is annoying to some.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by phoenix, posted 05-31-2004 2:42 PM phoenix has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by mike the wiz, posted 06-01-2004 9:25 AM NosyNed has replied

mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4750
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 5 of 18 (112011)
06-01-2004 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by NosyNed
06-01-2004 3:02 AM


Re: Some more?
Good point Ned. I think the problem is, that if you have to choose between the two, if you say "evolutionist" then you (it seems) are favouring evolution over creation. Yet, as you say, we still believe God creator, "created" the universe.
Is it a mis-match? Afterall, creation is obviously the creation or universe, and evolution is a theory of how animals have adapted to life. Unless "evolutionist" incorporates some kind of none-creation philosophy, I remain confused as to what to call myself.
But many here, like yourself, stick to the science and have no judgement on God. Or a lack of interest. I would still call myself "creationist" because I believe in a created universe. I have even never had a problem with the Big Bang Theory. I never understood why that Theory was so controversial.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by NosyNed, posted 06-01-2004 3:02 AM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by NosyNed, posted 06-01-2004 10:41 AM mike the wiz has replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 6 of 18 (112031)
06-01-2004 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by mike the wiz
06-01-2004 9:25 AM


Call yourself whatever you want
Well, Mike, you can call yourself whatever you want but geez it's not a crowd I'd want to be included with.
Just plain "Christian" seems to cover what you believe I don't see why you need to use another word.
"Theistic Evolutionist" or "Evolutionary Theist" (IIRC) are a couple of expresssions used to desparate the majority of Christians from the creationists but I don't see why they are needed. As I noted, of course a Christian believes God created the universe. No further qulification is necessary.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by mike the wiz, posted 06-01-2004 9:25 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by mike the wiz, posted 06-01-2004 11:02 AM NosyNed has not replied

mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4750
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 7 of 18 (112034)
06-01-2004 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by NosyNed
06-01-2004 10:41 AM


Re: Call yourself whatever you want
Okay - I suppose I am just christian then, unless someone forces me to choose.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by NosyNed, posted 06-01-2004 10:41 AM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by jar, posted 06-01-2004 11:08 AM mike the wiz has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 18 (112036)
06-01-2004 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by mike the wiz
06-01-2004 11:02 AM


Re: Call yourself whatever you want
Yeah Mike. Welcome to the world of JPOC (Just Plain Old Christians).

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by mike the wiz, posted 06-01-2004 11:02 AM mike the wiz has not replied

phoenix
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 18 (112059)
06-01-2004 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by mike the wiz
05-31-2004 2:53 PM


Clarity, I suppose
Well, hmm. I suppose this site intrigued me so much because I am still clarify and sharpening my beliefs. Actually, I suppose this is something I will be doing all my life. Although I was raised atheist, I have my doubts that there is no higer power. What I mean is, where as a lot of stuff in the Bible does not hold true with my personal beliefs (listen, if I spell words wrong I am sorry. I have lived in Mexico long enough that english can be a little hard to use), it also seems rather unlikely that the big bang happened of its own accord. Just one day the universe said, "Hey, Im bored. Why not have a Big Bang?"
Basically, I am here to learn. From what I have read in the forums the lot of you are intelligent, well read people. I look forward to learning new ideas and ways to approach the evolution/creating subject.
Thanks for the info Mike. Cool picture.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by mike the wiz, posted 05-31-2004 2:53 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by jar, posted 06-01-2004 12:46 PM phoenix has replied
 Message 12 by bob_gray, posted 06-01-2004 12:52 PM phoenix has replied
 Message 17 by Parasomnium, posted 06-02-2004 9:27 AM phoenix has not replied

phoenix
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 18 (112061)
06-01-2004 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by crashfrog
06-01-2004 12:41 AM


Crashfrog-
No, I did not miss the name of the site. I have found in my few experiences on this planet that personal responses are usually much more enlightening than what one finds on a web page.
So what do you think is right, the model or the book? I could take a wild guess, but I dont like to make assumptions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by crashfrog, posted 06-01-2004 12:41 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by crashfrog, posted 06-02-2004 12:03 PM phoenix has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 11 of 18 (112062)
06-01-2004 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by phoenix
06-01-2004 12:37 PM


Re: Clarity, I suppose
Well hang in with us. We certainly are glad that you're here. And personally, I think you may well be right. There is, IMHO, a good chance that something triggered the Big Bang. I currently would call that GOD, but as we learn more and push our knowledge further back, it might well be that GOD actually was the force that created the Primordial Egg, or that created whatever preceeded the PE, or created whatever preceeded whatever preceeded the PE.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by phoenix, posted 06-01-2004 12:37 PM phoenix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by phoenix, posted 06-01-2004 1:11 PM jar has not replied

bob_gray
Member (Idle past 5004 days)
Posts: 243
From: Virginia
Joined: 05-03-2004


Message 12 of 18 (112064)
06-01-2004 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by phoenix
06-01-2004 12:37 PM


Re: Clarity, I suppose
I'm not sure that you will find a scientific answer to this question:
it also seems rather unlikely that the big bang happened of its own accord. Just one day the universe said, "Hey, Im bored. Why not have a Big Bang?"
Scientific theory can't deal with events that predate the birth of the universe as we see it nor can it answer the question "why?". I'm pretty sure that falls into the realm of religion.
Anyway, enjoy your stay with EVC, this is a great place to get excellent information about most religious and/or scientific questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by phoenix, posted 06-01-2004 12:37 PM phoenix has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by phoenix, posted 06-01-2004 1:08 PM bob_gray has replied

phoenix
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 18 (112072)
06-01-2004 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by bob_gray
06-01-2004 12:52 PM


answers just lead to more questions
Bob,
I am completly de acuerdo, or I agree that it would be nearly impossible to find a scientific answer to the big bang theory. I would just like to hear and share different opinions so that I may someday be able to have a concrete answer when someone asks me, "Elena, do you believe in evolution or creationsism?" Because right now all I see is a bunch of grays.
Heres another question of the ages. Is it grey, or gray?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by bob_gray, posted 06-01-2004 12:52 PM bob_gray has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by bob_gray, posted 06-02-2004 12:00 AM phoenix has not replied

phoenix
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 18 (112075)
06-01-2004 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by jar
06-01-2004 12:46 PM


Re: Clarity, I suppose
Thanks for the welcome. Yall seem really welcoming, which is a nice feeling. I have a little question that has nothing to do with theology or the lack thereof. How do you get the cool pictures belown your name? I am not exactly computer savvy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by jar, posted 06-01-2004 12:46 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by mike the wiz, posted 06-01-2004 1:38 PM phoenix has not replied

mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4750
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 15 of 18 (112077)
06-01-2004 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by phoenix
06-01-2004 1:11 PM


Re: Clarity, I suppose
Am I your personal info service or what?
When you are making your post, go to the top right hand corner and click profile, go to the bottom of your profile, and there is "avatar" options. Your picture is your avatar.
Also, I am glad you think the Big Bang couldn't have just "happened" from the realm of nothingness. I have just mad a new topic, "Reasons to believe". The first message might help you with this subject.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by phoenix, posted 06-01-2004 1:11 PM phoenix has not replied

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