|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Evolutionist Frauds | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
But the evolutionist camp has a rap sheet longer that I feel like listing right now (all of which are readily available from multiple sources. The frauds and hoaxes and forgeries still continue in our day). This is from Skeptick in another thread. It is a shame that he didn't at least refer to one of the multiple sources. I will take up the Nebraska Man issue later. I'm not aware of any other case that could be, even remotely, considered to be an evolutionist fraud. If Skeptick would like to pull something off this lengthy rap sheet I would be interested.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Piltdown Man is about the only possibility - even Archaeoraptor was perpetrated by a fossil seller out for money and was exposed by evolutionists BEFORE the peer review process on the relevant papers were completed. Even in the case of Piltdown man the motives of the hoaxer are unclear - one suggestion was that it was an attempt to discredit Dawson but the hoaxer got cold feet.
On the other hand there are fakes and mistakes that creationists have used - the Paluxy tracks include both. One fake is the so-called Burdick track still promoted by creationists here http://www.bible.ca/tracks/burdick-track.htm and debunked here http://members.aol.com/Paluxy2/wilker5.htm
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
Let's not drift off topic to creationist frauds. If you want to discuss that please start another thread.
I'd like to see the 'rap sheet' of scientific fraud here.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
bump! You made a claim skeptick. Defend it if you can.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tamara Inactive Member |
Haeckel's embryo drawings is the only other one I know of.
[This message has been edited by Tamara, 02-17-2004]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
MrHambre Member (Idle past 1421 days) Posts: 1495 From: Framingham, MA, USA Joined: |
As Kenneth Miller points out in this NOVA Online debate with Phillip Johnson, you have to be careful about discarding embryological development entirely just because of Haeckel's carelessness:
quote:So there's a significant difference between admitting Haeckel was mistaken and ignoring the lesson to be learned by embryological similarities. The dark nursery of evolution is very dark indeed. Brad McFall
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: And as significant a difference between admitting Haeckel was mistaken, and calling his work a fraud. (Skeptick's implication having been that evolutionists were conciously faking evidence for a theory they knew to be untrue.) "Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river." -Anya
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
I think this is a real fraud. As I understand it the pictures were literally faked. The same one used for more than one animal.
I had, with my biases, forgotten this one.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
Ah. Fair deal; my mistake as well.
"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river." -Anya
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
As I understand it the pictures were literally faked. The same one used for more than one animal. That is not so. I've got a copy of Haeckel's Evolution of Man featuring the famous plates. It includes an interesting preface in which Haeckel defends his drawings from his critics (it's a second or third edition I've got). Haeckel argues that they are diagrams intended to show the salient points and that all diagrams are simplified and therefor inaccurate. I think this is a fair point, open your favourite physics textbook, look up how a CRT works, then take the back off your TV and compare the two. Don't look much alike do they? The features indicated in Haeckel's drawings do exist in real specimens - although they are not so clear or pronounced as he makes them and his drawings omit various complexities that make the features less obvious in real specimens. I'd say they fall more under the category of bad illustrations than actual fraud.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
You mean, GASP!, i fell for creationsist lies!!! Damm
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tamara Inactive Member |
I recommend the article Steven Jay Gould wrote on the Haeckel mess.
If Haeckel claimed that he was entitled to "simplify" his drawings in such a crude and misleading way does not make his claim sound. http://www.findarticles.com/...109/60026710/p1/article.jhtml---- There are also other frauds like the bird/dino fossil found in China recently that was quickly discovered to be a fake. Because a scientist happened to purchase the other side of the fossil plate and found the picture rather different. But this is more of a fraud perpetrated ON evolutionists. It just raises the question of... how many other frauds are there undetected? This particular detection was only due to a very fortuitous event.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tamara Inactive Member |
Oh and another point. Even if the Haeckel drawings were just very bad drawings, purporting to show how ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny, then how come they have been foisted on students for nearly 100 years after being recognized so???!!! That in itself is pretty fraudulent in my book.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
MrHambre Member (Idle past 1421 days) Posts: 1495 From: Framingham, MA, USA Joined: |
Tamara,
Again, I have no idea what your point is. We're so glad you agree with Stephen Jay Gould that the Haeckel drawings are misleading. We're not surprised that you don't agree with Gould that evolution doesn't require such subterfuge. Above, I posted a quote from cell biologist Kenneth Miller explaining what we should and shouldn't learn from the Haeckel affair, and what we should realize embryology is telling us. It seems you've made up your mind that all evidence for evolution is deceitful, and that all fossils are frauds. Forgive us if our views are a bit more informed and rational. regards,Esteban "In Fraud We Trust" Hambre
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: |
Thought I'd point out the "Why are Haeckel's drawings being taught in school?" topic.
AM
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024