Is Bestiality Wrong?

To me, yes. Because the animal cannot say one way or the other whether or not he desires to be a part of the act.That said, I must say that letting your dog lick your balls (I believe RiveRrat provided us with this scneario), while not necessarily pleasant to imagine, would not fall into the same category as, say, penetrating the dog due to the potential for harm, but we can't say one way or the other if the ball licking dog really wants to do it even if he seems eager and happy to do so. I would say it doesn't give a shit, but in cases where the person/animal cannot speak up for themselves I err on the side of caution. Yes, but not all people all the time. Absolutely not. Laws should be based on reason. If we allowed peple to legislate based on personal disgust we would have laws all kinds of stupid things (well, we already do, but most of those are based on emotion and not reason). For example, I am physically disgusted by most milky or creamy food stuffs (i.e. mayonaise, cream cheese, cottage cheese, sour cream, whipped cream, yogurt - it's a texture thing mostly). I have an irrational, visceral reaction to even the very idea of eating these things, including other people eating them. If we allowed laws based on my own personal disgust I could, as a legislator with enough public support, pass a law banning the production and consumption of these things. I might even misconstrue evidence to show that eating these things is bad for you or that some deity doesn't want people to eat them in order to support my position.Pretty stupid, huh? I am content to avoid these food stuffs and leave everyone else alone. Someone else would have to answer that. I am a vegetarian and I only consume free-range/humane dairy products/eggs. Incidentally, I am a vegetarian for similar reasons to why I object to bestiality, not for health reasons and I advocate for more humane treatment of animals. Agreed. Agreed. That is why I try to avoid such cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy. I have been known to equivocate a few times (i.e. if I ever feel the need to buy leather products I buy them used, if I am in the home of someone who has cooked a meal for me not knowing I am a vegetarian I will eat a bit of meat out of respect for that person - usually a well meaning mother of a girlfriend or friend), but I consider the consumption of meat and the inhumane treatment of animals in our food supply to be immoral.{ABE: I, however, do not advocate for legislation outlawing meat eating or fur/leather owning. That is for me to choose to do/not to do. I do advocate for more humane treatment of animals, not only in the food supply, but in other areas as well} That may very well be why you consider it immoral, but that does not mean that everyone else does. (I know you weren't saying that...just making a point)Edited by Jaderis, : No reason given.

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London

I have been reading this thread with interest and have supplemented my reading with stuff outside this forum. I have come to the conclusion that consent cannot be the only issue, but it is definitely a factor.You'll notice that I never said bestiality should be illegal, but to be honest that is probably what I was feeling subconsciously when I was typing my post at the beginning of this thread because I was still thinking on the terms of animal-human marriage (too many gay marriage threads I guess ) I still feel that animal-human marriage should be outlawed on the basis of informed consent because the animal will have no way to escape or speak out against any abuse incurred in such a marriage or even if it just doesn't "consent" anymore.I don't think bestiality in general should be outlawed unless the animal is subjected to harm or cruelty or forced into it (that one may be tricky, though). I do find it distasteful, but I wouldn't want it to be illegal just because I find it "icky." I also don't think I would discriminate against someone or stop being their friend or loving them if I discovered s/he was a zoophile, but I would probably have to work hard not to be a little bit put-off. I'm sure that with more exposure I wouldn't give it a second thought. I haven't thought about it much before now.You'll also notice that I said I was a vegetarian. If my decision was all about "consent" I would have to become a strict vegan in order to be consistent. However, it is not. It is mostly about cruelty, but consent also plays into it in the form that I don't feel I have the right to take an animal's life when I can be sustained (quite enjoyably, I might add) through other means. If it ever happens that I cannot be sustained through other means, then I will take that animal's life without hesitating. Eating eggs and using milk (I don't drink milk, but only because I don't like the taste) does use an animal without their consent, but when done in a humane manner it does not harm them. I don't use either very much, but when I do I use free range/organic products. Factory farming is atrocious not only for the animals, but for us and the environment as well.Anyway, I'm starting to drift off-topic, so I will leave it at that.

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London

Yes, it is a battle mostly since I haven't thought about it much before this. It was always something I dismissed or thought was slightly amusing (in that weird sort of way). I'd never thought about the legality of it before coming on here. It just never came up except in the context of marriage (it's kinda hard to avoid that being gay and all). I don't really foresee myself having a conversation about this in real life anytime soon, but if it does I'm sure I will get a similar response. That's definitely one of the arguments, but not so much in relation to being a vegetarian. When I said it affects us, I was mostly speaking of the obscene amounts of anti-biotics and other chemicals that pass from the meat to us and the risk of spreading infectious agents. I suppose it takes a certain amount of immunity to compassion, a numbness if you will, to treat the animals in factory farms the way we do and that could theoretically be a danger to our society as a whole or in part, but so far that hasn't been shown and we can only speculate.

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London