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Author Topic:   Casualty of faith healing - Madeline Neumann
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 2 of 286 (461680)
03-27-2008 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
03-27-2008 1:16 AM


It's called freedom of religion. Children die at the hospital as well due to mistakes and the imperfection of medicine.
It's a free country or at least partly that way. Let's keep it that way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 03-27-2008 1:16 AM Taz has replied

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 4 of 286 (461684)
03-27-2008 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Taz
03-27-2008 1:27 AM


freedom has costs
I am not saying what they did was right. What I am saying is that trying to use the law and the State to correct every problem and even protect a life is not always the right path in the long run.
Parents have ultimate responsibility for their children's care, and they will, just like doctors, sometimes make mistakes.
Sure, if their parents believed differently, in this case, their child's life could have been saved and they will suffer the knowledge for the rest of their lives that they could have saved her by not being so uncompromising.
We live in a soceity that respects to a degree at least, freedom, and one of those freedoms is religious freedom. To insist because someone died that we throw out religious freedom is wrong.
Let's look at this from another angle....I am sure some religious people consider it child abuse to raise children in unbelief and not expose them to prayer, faith and worship of God. Would it be OK to prosecute unbelievers for their lack of faith? What if a child committed suicide or got on drugs (and yes I know that occurs with religious families as well) but for sake of argument, religious people stated, hey, that child could easily have been saved if they knew God loved them and had a plan for their life, but their parents did bad....they didn't teach them what could have saved them and their materialist teaching led the child to despair.
Sorry, but we need to give parents the freedom to make their best decisions and that will mean there will sometimes be terrible lapses in judgement.
Edited by randman, : No reason given.
Edited by randman, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Taz, posted 03-27-2008 1:27 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Taz, posted 03-27-2008 1:56 AM randman has replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 6 of 286 (461686)
03-27-2008 2:05 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Taz
03-27-2008 1:56 AM


Re: freedom has costs
What religious freedom? The religious freedom to murder your children in the name of god? I can't believe what I'm seeing.
No one murdered anyone here. The parents believed prayer and faith were the best medicine. You believe medical science was.
In this case, medical science may well have been, but at the same time, people die due to medical science all the time. That's a fact whether you wish to acknowledge it or not.
What the hell are you talking about? These people had an entire month to get their daughter the help she needed. Mistake?
If a parent takes a child to a hospital and the child dies due to medical mistakes, are you going to say the parents murdered the child?
Bottom line is you are insisting your worldview is the right one and want to impose that on others. In this case, the parent's worldview and faith led to the death of their child, which is tragic, but they have a right to hold those beliefs just as you do your's. You are outraged they didn't do the right thing, but at the same time, you wouldn't show any outrage at parents whose child died getting routine surgery died due to some complication. In fact, you'd think it was the doctor's fault or just bad luck, but it was the parents that put the child at risk in the first place.
You need to realize that freedom of religion and freedom in general is important.
On honor killings or abortion (legal murder), no, those are clear acts of aggression that should not be tolerated. There's a difference.
Edited by randman, : No reason given.

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 Message 14 by FliesOnly, posted 03-27-2008 7:25 AM randman has not replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 7 of 286 (461687)
03-27-2008 2:06 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Taz
03-27-2008 1:56 AM


Re: freedom has costs
You are proving my point for years now that it's always the christians that support legalized child abuse.
Hmmm.....you sure about that? How many Christians advocate it's OK to kill a baby growing peacefully in the womb?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Taz, posted 03-27-2008 1:56 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 10 of 286 (461690)
03-27-2008 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Taz
03-27-2008 2:22 AM


Re: freedom has costs
TB, it's not Christian dogma. It's a matter of freedom. In fact, most Christians would take their kid to the doctor in such a situation.
What you don't seem to realize is that if you want the freedom to not go to church or a specific church, you also need to grant others the freedom to not go to the doctor or go to doctor they choose and treat illnesses according to their own beliefs.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 11 of 286 (461691)
03-27-2008 2:41 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Taz
03-27-2008 2:19 AM


Re: freedom has costs
If it was my child and I was a christian, I would have tried everything to save my child, and that includes both prayer and medical science.
As would 99.999% of Christians and people of other faiths. So what?
why the hell are you putting faith healing on the same grounds as medical science?
Because it's a matter of religion and under our Constitution, religious freedom is guaranteed.
And refusing your kid medical help and let her die a very slow and painful death over a whole month not an act of aggression?
No, it's not. But I am not surprised by your lack of tolerance. It's very typical. The simple fact is their motive was to save their child's life. It was not murder. It was an error in judgement imo, but it was an error religiously motivated and as such, it is not something they should be prosecuted for. People have a right to follow their own religion even if that entails some risks, including the risk of death due to avoiding medicine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Taz, posted 03-27-2008 2:19 AM Taz has replied

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 65 of 286 (461831)
03-28-2008 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Silent H
03-27-2008 5:29 PM


Re: freedom has costs (oh, and one cost is dead kids)
Thanks. I am too busy to post much at this time.....your comments, however, express my views on this as well, maybe better than I would.

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