Smoking Bans

I think its bullshit that according to the law (here in illinois)somebody can't open up a bar that allows smoking if they want to.The law shouldn't disallow people having a bar that can be smoked in if the owner wants it to be that way.If people don't want to be in a smoky bar, then don't go to the bars that allow smoking.I also think its funny when people bitch about smoking and the air while they stand on the sidewalk next to bumper to bumper traffic breathing in car exhaust

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Its kinda funny though, around here in southern Illinois. Lots of bars just ignore the law and let people smoke anyway. Shit though, I've seen people smoking pot in a bar.The chief of police in one small town here said (I think publically) that he wouldn't acknowledge any smoking tickets and that he felt that his officers had better things to do than issue tickets for smoking cigarettes.

Sort of...I don't really consider a bar that allows smoking to be "filled with toxic fumes", but your point came across. That's actually a really good argument, thank you. I disagree on the bolded part. Second-hand smoke does not pose an immediate risk like dirty glasses (or gas leasks) do. But its not clear to me that allowing smoking is as dangerous as dirty glassware and I don't know where the governments authority begins and ends on these things, so I'm not entirely convinced that the government is well within its authority to regulate smoking.And even if I found out that they are, I still have an issue with the way the law here is in Illinois that someone can't even open a bar that allows smoking if they want to. There should be public places where people are allowed to smoke inside, IMHO. The current law doesn't allow for them in any way.

Me too.In Oklahoma, you can smoke in the bars but you can't smoke in the restaurants. For facilities that sell both alcohol and food, if they sell more alcohol than food then you can smoke in them but if they sell more food than alcohol then you cannot smoke in them.I just think it sucks that no bar at all can allow smoking here in (The People's Republic of) Illinois.There was a "cigar bar" in town that pretty much had to close down because of the smoking ban. Its a shame.

I don't think that second hand cigarette smoke is dangerous enough for the government to regulate it to the point that a person is forbidden to open up a bar that allows smoking.

I'm not totally against any regulation at all and I agree that its reasonable for the government to restrict smoking. I just think that the regulation, specifically here in Illinois, takes it too far when there can't even be one bar that is allowed to have smoking. If a bar has a vested interest in allowing it, then I think they should be permitted to.One way to go about it would be to require a membership, for say $0.01, to be allowed in the facility thereby making it a "private" club and then have smoking there. But the way the law here is, we can't even do that (IIRC). That's too much governmentin' for my taste.So, I'm not against it altogether, I just think it goes too far.

I was thinking specifically about the cigar bar that I meantioned in message 37 that had to close down. I have no interest in establishing the guidelines by which regulation is permitted.You can call it a gut feeling if you want to, but I just don't like all this Big Brother governmentin' that looks to be an increasing trend. Do we really need the government telling us that we're not allowed to have a cigar bar? You'd think that if you were applying for a job at a cigar bar, you'd know that you'd be subjecting yourself to, what I feel is a minor, health risk. What's next? Cracking down on sexual harassment of strippers? I don't think the environment created by second hand smoke in a bar is hazardous enough for the government to restrict it to absolutely none at all. Then leave it as nonsense.... I'm talking about bars here. Children are a non-issue. The boundary should be set at just before absolutely none at all. Get the government out of the people way and let them be free to live how they want and stop babysitting them so much. We don't need the government telling us that we are not allowed to have a cigar bar.

Of course they do, I'm not arguing against that.Look, in Missouri there is no smoking ban at all. In Oklahoma there is a ban in restaurants but you can still smoke in bars. In Illinois, there is no smoking inside public places without exception.We can see that there is a range on how restrictive the legislation is. This isn't an all or nothing issue.I feel, yes it is my opinion, that the Illinois restriction goes too far because it doesn't even allow for specialty businesses like a cigar bar to exist. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be able to put the line there, just that I don't like where they've decided to put the line.Even with the known health risks, the people should be able to decide for themselves if they want to have a cigar bar or not. They don't need the government to do that much regulating for them. Some states agree with me, some don't. Its a matter of opinion at this point.I don't care enough about this to get down to the gnat's ass on exactly where the regulation should be (besides that I'd prefer to enjoy my time here). Actually, it should be up to the state (like it is). The state gets to decide where they want to draw the line and I get to express my dissatisfaction with where they've put it. If its just noise to you, then so be it. I don't have to participate here in the way that you think I should be participating.I've just expressed my opinion on the issue, which happens to agree with some states and not others. You're acting like this is a black and white issue and yours is the only one that's correct.

Contradictory views are held by the law because they do need to be practical. I agree with Straggler that your general approach is "too ratrional" and doesn't include enough pragmatism. I'm not convinced that smoking in a bar is dangerous enough to outlaw without exception. If it really is that bad, then smoking should not be legal. I'm just not putting in the time and effort to explain myself to the point that you're satisfied. That doesn't exclude all rationality from my position, though. Like Onifre said, my likes and feelings can be based off of a rational interpretation. /yawn. No thanks. Because without it, I feel like there's too much governmentin'. The People don't need a babysitter like that. The health risk isn't high enough. I'll debate the subject, just not to the depth where I'm no longer enjoying it. It can be but it doesn't have to be. It doesn't disturb me to be unable to adequately express my dissatisfaction to you, to your standard. I'm comfortable with my position and I understand my feelings myself. I'm not going to put in the time and effort to justify them to you. I'm not that good at expressing myself on paper anyways (which makes it require more time and more effort). I have though. Cigarettes aren't that bad and having no exception is too much intrusion on the People. We don't need that much governmentin'.