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Author Topic:   An afterlife or no? You choose (for athiests and agnostics)
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5937 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 8 of 49 (285412)
02-10-2006 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by iano
02-09-2006 6:16 PM


endless numbers
I agree with Madfish on this one and a simple bit of the "math of eternity" can drive this home.
Eternal life 101 : You will live forever and never stop living.
Starts with year 1.
Then we measure in decades.
Now we go to centuries, millenia, epochs eras and eons.
With eons we shall start with a small value set at 100,000,000 years
Let us expand the scale of time now to crunch the numbers so to speak
100,000,000 million years times 100,000,000 years now passes to reveal an existance spanning 10,000,000,000,000,000 years.
Here we are taking the next step in the journey of eternity.
Ten million billion years have elapsed setting the next stage to our excursion. 10,000,000,000,000,000 times itself results in a new level
100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years
Now we further outr odyssey to another realm {have you said wow to yourself yet?}
10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.
And again
100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.
One more time shall we ? Please?
10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
years
This is the result of running in simple squaring of intial values a mere ten times.
Let us continue the pilramage with someting equivalent but easier on the eyes, Exponetial notation.
Our step ten number is expressed as 10^255. The high value placed on the number of particles in the known universe is a mere 10^87 to give you an idea off the size.
To ease things up and to take account of the vagueness of my original values such as epoch we shall reduce this to 10^100.
This number value actually has a name. It is called a googol.{ quick trivia tidbit. The search engine google is named after this but is slightly different because of an error in spelling.}
To quickly drive home the point here let us continue our steps up to and including 20 by taking 10^100 and squaring it.
10^10000 years step 11 squared{sq}
10^100000000 years step 12 sq
10^10000000000000000 years step 13 sq
10^100000000000000000000000000000000 years step 14 sq
10^10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
years step 15 sq
I am going to stop there, at fifteen and not twenty.
This exceedingly large number is less than a number known as a googleplex{ I am not making this up} which is represented as this exponential number here
10{10^100} years
Let us finish this with one final example of truly large number.
Factorials are a way of generating immense values that simple squaring of a number cannot match.
This is a sample of factorials of the numbers 0 through 20
1, 1, 2, 6, 24, 120, 720, 5040, 40320, 362880, 3628800, 39916800, 479001600, 6227020800, 87178291200, 1307674368000, 20922789888000, 355687428096000, 6402373705728000, 121645100408832000, 2432902008176640000, ... We write thus 0!,1!,2!,3! etc
You can see how fast they expand. Now take the googleplex and take the factorial of that in and this will be the final step in my demo here
10(10^100}!
If you can begin to appreciate this then here is the final note in tonights song.There is no scale large enough at all to even begin a journey which has no end.
Do you still think you would like to have endless existence my friend?

But I realize now that these people were not in science; they didn’t understand it. They didn’t understand technology; they didn’t understand their time. R.P. Feynman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by iano, posted 02-09-2006 6:16 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by iano, posted 02-10-2006 6:46 AM sidelined has replied
 Message 14 by riVeRraT, posted 02-10-2006 6:51 AM sidelined has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5937 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 21 of 49 (285467)
02-10-2006 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by iano
02-10-2006 6:46 AM


Time for a lesson
iano
iano
Although no one could know what an afterlife might look or feel like until they get there, there is at least one model of it which excludes linear time as an intrinsic property of it. Whilst I don't think anyone living in linear time can get their head around the idea of eternity, the model gives little clue as to what its like. For a person living in eternity looking at time, our linear yesterday, today and tomorrow are all present tense for them.
You are saying here that in your model the past,present and future are all in the present tense? Pardon me, iano, but that is meaningless dribble. Unless you can clarify how time passes when it is all present tense and is thus unmoving,then I think you are spouting nonsense of a grave sort here. All sound and fury signifying nothing.
But is it preferable to a life of no time? It could be exciting with no time to dull things unto boredom
Time is the measure of the movement of events in space. If there is no time things do not move, my friend, and now you are caught in a world where nothing occurs since this requires linear time. It would be duller by far than the notion I envisioned, since you would essentially be frozen without the passage of time. Indeed you woould not even have thoughts since these too require time for their engagement.
I don't think it's a matter of choice to be honest. The OP just respects the views of athiests
Eternity cares no more for atheists than it does for people of religious bent since these have no more to do with time than hair color does.
This message has been edited by sidelined, Fri, 2006-02-10 08:29 AM
This message has been edited by sidelined, Fri, 2006-02-10 08:31 AM

But I realize now that these people were not in science; they didn’t understand it. They didn’t understand technology; they didn’t understand their time. R.P. Feynman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by iano, posted 02-10-2006 6:46 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by iano, posted 02-10-2006 11:11 AM sidelined has not replied
 Message 26 by NosyNed, posted 02-10-2006 11:22 AM sidelined has not replied

  
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