Author
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Topic: The Universal Moral Law & Devolution since the Fall
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: But that is NOT what the Bible says.
mjfloresta writes: There's death in the world already. Adam and Eve must be aware of it (yes?). Of course they must have been aware of it. How else could death be a "threat" to them?
What craziness prevents them from eating the fruit once and for all? Not craziness - lack of knowledge. When they didn't know the difference between good and evil, they had no way of knowing that death is "bad". Edited by Ringo, : Punctuation. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to: | | Message 15 by mjfloresta, posted 09-11-2006 3:41 PM | | mjfloresta has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: But that is NOT what the Bible says.
mjfloresta writes: ... if, as you say, death was a threat to them, they obviously knew that death is bad. How could God threaten them with death if they didn't know what death was? Would you do what I tell you to do if I threatened you with edysowk? Obviously they knew what death was. And obviously they didn't know it was bad. They didn't know anything was bad. Surely you've heard the saying about teenagers thinking they're immortal. They see death. They know it happens. But they think "it can't happen to me." Adam and Eve were the first teenagers. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to: | | Message 19 by mjfloresta, posted 09-11-2006 4:04 PM | | mjfloresta has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: But that is NOT what the Bible says.
mjfloresta writes: ...you are now implying that they were not threatened by death, but were merely aware of it (in other beings?) Try to keep up. Death is a threat, but they didn't know it was a threat to them. Teenagers, remember? God the Father told his teenagers, "Look. Death happens. You can see it every day. So, be careful. Don't drink and drive." The teenagers replied, "Yeah, right. You just don't want us to have any fun." Then they matured and they learned their lesson. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to: | | Message 25 by mjfloresta, posted 09-11-2006 4:28 PM | | mjfloresta has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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mjfloresta writes: You critizize the plain reading of the text. Not at all. I am looking at the plain reading of the text. There is nothing in the text that suggests there was no death at any time in the history of the world. There is nothing in the text that suggests a "fall". Rather, eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil made Adam and Eve more like God. That's what the text says. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to: | | Message 30 by mjfloresta, posted 09-11-2006 4:46 PM | | mjfloresta has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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mjfloresta writes: It is the assertion that there was death pre-fall that is scripturally un-supported Interesting that you don't provide any scripture to back up that assertion. But we're getting off topic here, aren't we? I can never get any "fallist" to actually substantiate "the fall" from a scriptural viewpoint. How about opening a topic dedicated to that proposition? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to: | | Message 33 by mjfloresta, posted 09-11-2006 5:00 PM | | mjfloresta has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 43 of 189 (348259)
09-11-2006 10:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 42 by Faith 09-11-2006 9:26 PM
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Re: Scripture is SO clear death came by Adam
Faith writes: Does it matter to any of you that this is standard traditional Christian theology through the ages? No. Do we have to remind you of slavery and geocentrism in every thread? The one thing that's consistent about traditional Christian theology is that it's consistently fallible. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to: | | Message 42 by Faith, posted 09-11-2006 9:26 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 48 of 189 (348273)
09-11-2006 11:48 PM
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Reply to: Message 46 by robinrohan 09-11-2006 11:14 PM
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Re: Scripture is SO clear death came by Adam
robinrohan writes: Why is Paul not believable but the author of Genesis is? You should know better than that. If you want to know Hemingway, do you read Hemingway or do you rely on other people's commentaries on Hemingway? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to: | | Message 46 by robinrohan, posted 09-11-2006 11:14 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 57 of 189 (348348)
09-12-2006 10:52 AM
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Reply to: Message 56 by robinrohan 09-12-2006 10:36 AM
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Re: Scripture is SO clear death came by Adam
robinrohan writes: What are you suggesting about the author of Genesis? That the authors of Genesis were authors just like any other author. That Paul's interpretation of Genesis was no more valid than anybody else's interpretation. That Paul is less "believable" on Genesis than the authors of Genesis. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to: | | Message 56 by robinrohan, posted 09-12-2006 10:36 AM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 164 of 189 (350664)
09-20-2006 11:49 AM
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Reply to: Message 151 by Faith 09-19-2006 10:20 PM
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Re: two trees
Faith writes: Death entered the world with their sin; without the sin, no death. I'm not following the logic here. If Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life to maintain their immortality, what about the (other) animals? Weren't they immortal too? Wouldn't they all have had to eat from the tree of life? That seems like a lot to expect from one tree. And what about the animals outside the garden? When they were fruitful and multiplied and filled the earth, would there still be only one tree of life to sustain them all? Or would each one have to make a pilgrimage to the garden to eat his one-time immortality-fruit? Edited by Ringo, : Spelling. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to: | | Message 151 by Faith, posted 09-19-2006 10:20 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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