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Author Topic:   The Universal Moral Law & Devolution since the Fall
AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 181 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 40 of 189 (348215)
09-11-2006 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by ringo
09-11-2006 4:00 PM


Re: But that is NOT what the Bible says.
sorry, hit wrong button.
Edited by AnswersInGenitals, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by ringo, posted 09-11-2006 4:00 PM ringo has not replied

  
AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 181 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 53 of 189 (348298)
09-12-2006 2:57 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by mjfloresta
09-11-2006 4:55 PM


Arborial Gardening 101
mjf writes:
What about the rest of the punishment?The serpent is cursed above all livestock and cursed to crawl on its belly. The woman is given increased pain in childbirth and given to the rule of her husband. The man is cursed to sweat for his food amid thorns, thistles, and painful toil. And man is guaranteed to return to dust (to die). If they were incapable of sin, Why was God punishing them? Since it's God punishing them, the clear inference is that they sinned.
What most confuses me about this entire controversy is: If god didn't want Adam and Eve to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge (FOTOK), why did he put the tree in the garden of Eden? After all, god had created the entire earth and presumably knew where all the continents and stuff were, so why didn't he put the damn tree in Bangcock, or Brisbane, or Brooklyn? Third Line Literalists (these are bible literalists that just read every third line of the scriptures) might argue that god specifically put the tree in sight of Adam and Eve to test their obedience to him. But if they read the other two lines they can see that this can't be true. For example, if this were correct, then the snake would have been acting as god's agent in the test, sort of his hunched-back lab assistant Igor, and would have been rewarded for doing his job, not punished. Perhaps you can clarify this for me. It just seems that the god that you and Faith are trying to foist on the world gets more lovable with every post.
Regards, AnInGe
---------------------------
All of Noah's grandchildren married their first cousins. Might explain a lot about the human condition.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by mjfloresta, posted 09-11-2006 4:55 PM mjfloresta has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by mjfloresta, posted 09-12-2006 11:15 AM AnswersInGenitals has replied

  
AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 181 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 77 of 189 (348463)
09-12-2006 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by mjfloresta
09-12-2006 11:15 AM


Re: Arborial Gardening 101
To answer your question, I do believe that God put the Tree (of knowledge of good and evil) in Eden to test Adam and Eve's obedience. Many people here have raised the issue of moral agency. If God desired to create moral agents (those who have the ability to choose moral right or wrong) why then could he not test their loyalty via the tree? Scripture is plain that God allows us to be tempted. As far as the serpent, having fallen himself, his loyalty was anywhere but to God; consequently, he desires that others reject God as he did. Being in direct rebellion to God, he was justly punished, not rewarded...
I must admit that I am not a student of the bible and must rely on the kindness of strangers to enlighten me as to its content. You have certainly enlightened me with your response and taken this thread into some fascination new territory. So the snake, of his own evil volition directs Eve to disobey god, telling us that Adam and Eve are not alone amongst god's creatures with free will. If the snake, as you point out, is capable of thwarting god's will from his own initiative, then he must have free will and consequently a soul to be the base of that free will. If the snake has free will, then we can conclude that all the animals of god's creation have free will.
This in one fell swoop answers a lot of questions that have been raised in this forum: why does god drown all the poor innocent beasts of the field in the great flood? Because they are not innocent, but like man have a free will and soul that have become as corrupted as man's; Do animals have souls (the subject of a previous thread that I haven't taken the time to read)? Yes, for at least the snake has a soul and there is no reason to think him unique. This also explains why death and disease are rife throughout the animal kingdom. Not just the animal kingdom, since trees and plants were destroyed in the flood and are cursed with endless sorts of diseases and death. I now feel a lot better about the two beloved trees I recently lost to oak root fungus. I'm sure they now enjoy the blessings of their heavenly abode.
I'm not clear on how Noah knew which pairs of animals were sinless and deserved to survive the flood. Whenever I read about the flood story, I get this image that when the word got out that Noah was going to save one pair of unclean animals, but seven pair of clean animals, that there was a run on all the soap products at the local mini-marts. I can just see all those beasts of the field frantically scrubbing away.
Thank you for clarifying this issue for me. God puts the tree of knowledge in the garden as part of his plan to test Adam and Eve's obedience. This makes perfect sense. Why else would god even create the ToK? By tempting Eve, the snake helps god execute this plan, which is a vile and sinful thing for the snake to do. This also makes perfect sense. At least it makes perfect sense if you spend one full hour staring at Faith posts. I guess it makes sense in a Falwellian way, given that Falwell insists that the 9/11 terrorists were carrying out god's plan to punish the US for permitting feminism, but were still committing sinful acts that would destine them to hell. I guess my pathetic little mind just can't comprehend these higher logical constructs. Stupid neurons!
Regards, AnInGe
------------------
All of Noah's grandchildren married their first cousins. Explains a lot about the human condition.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by mjfloresta, posted 09-12-2006 11:15 AM mjfloresta has not replied

  
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