Relativity is wrong...

I'll be moderating this thread for a while.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Please let the moderators do their job. If you're having a problem in discussion then post a note to Report discussion problems here: No.2.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Everyone's doing an excellent job (mostly) keeping frustration in check. Just wanted to let everyone know I'm still keeping an eye on things.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Participants are requested to support their positions with both evidence and argument. When using a reference, describe the evidence and/or make the argument in your own words, providing a link to the source material, or a citation if it isn't available on-line.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Earlier today I issued a request that participants support their positions with evidence and argument, see Message 296. I didn't single anyone out.Starting tomorrow I'll be singling people out. Here are the relevant guidelines:

1. Follow all moderator requests.

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4. Points should be supported with evidence and/or reasoned argumentation. Address rebuttals through the introduction of additional evidence or by enlarging upon the argument. Do not repeat previous points without further elaboration. Avoid bare assertions.
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5. Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided. Make the argument in your own words and use links as supporting references.

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10. Always treat other members with respect. Argue the position, not the person. Avoid abusive, harassing and invasive behavior. Avoid needling, hectoring and goading tactics.

Just to provide a hint of where I'll be focusing my attention, if your posts consist of many one and two sentence responses, you might want to rethink your approach.I would like to be specific about one type of undesirable response: anything of the form, "I already answered that." People who say this often find this isn't exactly true if they actually look for where they already addressed the issue. It was either something else about the same topic, or it tackled a different aspect of the problem, or just somehow wasn't a fit.But if you truly addressed some issue already then either:

• Cut-n-paste your previous answer into the new message.
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• Provide a link to the message where the answer appears, and if the message is longer than a paragraph, describe where in the message.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Folks,As I said yesterday, today I am beginning active moderation in this thread. For those of you who assumed that I meant anybody but you, you were wrong. I will be moderating without regard to however exemplary your past participation here might have been. Also, violations of the guidelines by one member are no justification for your own violations.These are the guidelines most relevant to this thread, but naturally I'll be enforcing all the guidelines:

1. Follow all moderator requests.

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4. Points should be supported with evidence and/or reasoned argumentation. Address rebuttals through the introduction of additional evidence or by enlarging upon the argument. Do not repeat previous points without further elaboration. Avoid bare assertions.
   ​
5. Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided. Make the argument in your own words and use links as supporting references.

​

10. Always treat other members with respect. Argue the position, not the person. Avoid abusive, harassing and invasive behavior. Avoid needling, hectoring and goading tactics.

Active moderation begins immediately after this message. If you post a non-conforming message before seeing this, go back and edit it now.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Smooth Operator,I'd like to request that you provide explanation or justification in your replies. For example, in this message that I'm replying to you would explain why to you "it looks as it is enough."In most cases, short one and two sentence answers are insufficient. I'd like to see your responses become as long or longer than the excerpts you provide.Because you may not have yet had a chance to read my Message 342, and because I'm now seeing a series of very short messages from you, I'm issuing a very short one hour suspension.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Smooth Operator,I have issued another suspension because you appear to be ignoring my requests, one specifically made to you in Message 350 to be more detailed and explanatory in your responses.I'm suspending you for two hours.Please, no replies to this message.To everyone else: Please maintain focus on the topic. Moderator actions are not the topic.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Smooth Operator,Rule 5 from the Forum Guidelines requests that you make arguments in your own words and only use links as references:

5. Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided. Make the argument in your own words and use links as supporting references.

Please try to more closely follow the Forum Guidelines.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Smooth Operator,This is an example of where you should be explaining and elaborating your position: Whether intentional or not, you seem to be ignoring my requests to be more substantive in your responses according to rule 4 of the Forum Guidelines:

4. Points should be supported with evidence and/or reasoned argumentation. Address rebuttals through the introduction of additional evidence or by enlarging upon the argument. Do not repeat previous points without further elaboration. Avoid bare assertions.

For this reason I'm suspending you for 24 hours.Because of your energy and willingness to defend unusual and interesting positions EvC Forum would really like to keep you as an active member, but all members have to follow the Forum Guidelines, and we can't really make exceptions. The next suspension will be for a week, and the next after that will be permanent. Permanent suspensions are never rescinded.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Smooth Operator,First, please use the little reply button beneath each message so that people can tell who you're replying to.Second, about this: If you can't make this particular argument yourself, then you will have to drop it. This is from the Forum Guidelines:

4. Points should be supported with evidence and/or reasoned argumentation. Address rebuttals through the introduction of additional evidence or by enlarging upon the argument. Do not repeat previous points without further elaboration. Avoid bare assertions.
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5. Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided. Make the argument in your own words and use links as supporting references.

Let me ask you what is for now a rhetorical question: How long do you think I'm going to just stand by and repeatedly cite the same rules from the Forum Guidelines to you while you ignore them and me? Did I mention your next suspension will be for a week?

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Again, if you can't make the argument yourself then you will have to drop it. Everyone else in this thread is offering direct evidence and argument, some from the get go, others upon request. I can't let you be the only participant flouting the Forum Guidelines.This is your last warning. If you make a non-conforming post before seeing this, better go back and edit it before I see it.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Smooth Operator,I'm sorry things are turning out the way they are, but we try to hold everyone equally accountable to the Forum Guidelines. The goal is to have discussions with more light than heat, more information than bickering. Either you'll figure out how to comport yourself in a manner consistent with the Forum Guidelines, or you won't.If other participants feel I'm being unduly harsh they can appeal your suspension and treatment over at the Report discussion problems here: No.2 thread. Otherwise, see you in a week.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Smooth Operator,You sound honestly surprised that there is a problem with your participation here, so let me very briefly provide some explanation that might help you understand my position a little bit better.My standard for judging whether someone is discussing constructively is if they explain their position sufficiently well that I could explain it to someone else. Your problem is primarily that you explain very little. Here are a few examples from your Message 1: And that's just Message 1.What you need to do is provide enough elaboration for your point to be understood. The way you're conducting yourself more resembles evasion than constructive discussion.You probably disagree with my characterization, but there's nothing I can do about that. What's important is that permanent suspension will be the result unless you're able to conform to the Forum Guidelines and constructively participate in discussions.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Smooth Operator,Over the next few days, let's say until Saturday morning, I'll offer suggestions for how to contribute more constructively to discussion. If at the end of that time I haven't seen any improvement then you'll be permanently suspended.Cocnerning this: You needed to explain how the outer shell keeps the sun in orbit around the Earth.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director