Relativity is wrong...

so...is this SO joker really really serious when he says that the sun moves around the Earth?Despite the fact that we have cameras up there now, in space, orbiting and landing on other planets, and even gazing at the sun itself?Is he aware that - and I really don't know the actual math either way but the point is many, many people do - NASA, ESA and so many other organizations have used real math, with real calculations on them, based in the theories of universal gravitation and a heliocentric universe to put actual physical objects not only up into space, but to land them on mars, fly them around the solar system (yes, solar, not geo-system or whatever abberation it would be called), fly past the other planets, inspect the sun itself?He is obviously calling every single geosynchronous satellite a lie, every picture from every other world, worldlet, moon, moonlet, asteroid or star a lie, every single calculation done by every single employee who has calculated how to send objects hurtling through the void based on a system he says can't be real?I mean - if he can get his head far enough into a dark enough place to do that, mere facts will never dislodge a braincell.How does he refute the mountain of proof?

...he said that? oh for the love of dog...that's just creationism dressed up as ID in a poor attempt to give it credence. I'm not surprised.the objections that I'd like to hear from him though, although I know the answer he'd give (if any), are about how we've managed to perfectly model the universe to such a degree that we've landed on the moon and mars and titan and venus, slammed things into asteroids, inspected the sun and have successfully sent two probes out of our solar system.How did we manage to do that without a damn good understanding of the mechanics?ie, either somebody has all the answers as to how to correctly interpret things according to his weird and insane ramblings, we're bloody lucky (yeah, right) or things really do work how we think they do.I'd like to see NASA's real calculations since obviously the Earth is at the center of the universe. and probably flat.You're wondering about his answers, still?He'd say all the data's faked. Or he wouldn't answer.

wow, just wow.Baseless ad hominem attacks on a poster should not only be discouraged but be against the rules. Thank goodness it's not a baseless attack when I call you an absolute ignoramus who is shockingly, delusionally ignorant of even the simplest of the laws of physics. It's not ad hominem to point out the truth.If you had one whit of the intelligence of any of the great men and women whose name you besmirch you'd realise that even the ancient greeks about 2000 years ago worked out the world was a sphere, a ball. they didn't know why, but they knew (or at least strongly suspected) that it was.If you had one jot of the intelligence of the great men and women you sully with your stupidity you would realise that Galileo spent a good part of his life trying to work out just why the motion of the planets had to be so complex when everything else was so simple - and why he favoured copernicus' model over the geocentric model.Go away until you have studied the facts yourself with even a shade of the discipline and the intellect shown through history.

You know, it really boils my noodle to have somebody handwave away motion of planets, meteors and everything else without any justification, without any sort of effort to actually quantify their motion, without any sort of observational facts, and yet have that somebody expect their hair-brained handwavium be taken seriously.we can see the planets moving, and the apparent motion of the sun. we can see moons around the other planets (they obviously orbit).Now, occams razor says (and forgive me, you nitpickers) choose the simplest option.The motion of the moons around the planets (and our moon around our planet) is really, really simple - a circle (more or less).The motion of the planets and sun? really, really complicated...unless you assume that the sun is the center.At that point, we can not only display an accurate representation of where everything IS, but where everything WILL be, and explain phenomena such as partial and total eclipses - NOT only for our planet but for ALL planets.And not only can we do that, but predict PRECISELY when they will occur.Having displayed this simple idea - the orbits of the heavenly bodies explaining ALL the difficulties in their APPARENT motion, shouldn't we ALL have enough sense to agree with the model, PURELY because it fits ALL of the facts?I don't think there is a SINGLE fact not accounted for by Newton's law of universal gravitation and the heliocentric solar-system - NOT a heliocentric universe, NOT a geocentric solar system and CERTAINLY not a geocentric universe.If one were to talk about relativity, well Einstein is the master of that phrase, and anyone who wants to dispute it had better be at least as smart as Einstein, because few others are capable, and certainly nobody who's an armchair know-it-all.

I'm agreeing with you and adding my own sense of frustration sorry if it wasn't obvious.

Do you mean that Mars AND the Sun both go around the Earth, or that Mars somehow magically goes around the Sun whilst Earth stays still?Both are ridiculous on the evidence, but presumably if Earth is stood still, whilst Mars does it's thing, both could have the midnight sun - but that depends specifically on the orbits of ALL the other planets being around the sun, which goes around the earth - by definition alone.In which case, you may as well plot Earth as being in motion around the sun because it's a damn sight simpler to account for known laws such as gravity, conservation of momentum and so on, and arbitrarily sticking a pin in Earth gives us exactly the same model as the sane members of this board suggest, just a whole lot more cumbersome.For SO's downright medieval model to be necessary, everything has to go around the earth.

It's hard to leave well enough alone when confronted with such blatant, ignorant, jaw-dropping ignorance, yes. I think I'm with you, DA.

I really should leave well enough alone, but THAT doesn't tie up with THIS yeah, that's gonna work.the rotating universe (!) exerts a force on the sun, but apparently NOT on Mars, because Mars ORBITS THE SUN NOT THE EARTHExcuse me whilst I laughAAHHAHAHAHAAAAHOOOOHHOHOHOOOOHEEEEHEEEEEEE *wheeeze-coughcoughcough* AHAHAHAHAAAAAHEEEHAHAHAHAAAAABasically, dear sir, you are stuck with two options, NEITHER of which your "model" (if such a debased travesty could be called a model - coherent it certainly is not) fits with.Item 1: the rotating universe apparently causes the sun to rotate around the earth.That's fine, fine and dandy...but then everything else must also rotate around the earth AND AROUND NOTHING ELSE. Otherwise, your model is inconsistent without a shred of reasoning behind itItem 2: mars *obviously* rotates around the sun (you fool) because otherwise it cannot have a midnight sun.That's fine and dandy, infact that's better than fine (on it's own), it actually creates a condition we have to agree with, since it is based on evidence.HOWEVER items 1 and 2 are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEI don't know how much of a cretin you are (and I'm really not insulting you) not to realise this - you have to have some mental deficiency not to understand the simplest of problems with your model.If you claim that, infact, everything ELSE goes around the Sun, but that the Sun follows the exact same path that, if we were to stick a pin in the Sun instead of the Earth, would give us a nicely roughly-circular motion for the Earth travelling through space instead...then why in goodness' name are you subjecting us to your drivel?You'd be describing EXACTLY the same model as every heliocentrist ever, but dogmatically, blindly, ignorantly decrying that the Earth can't possibly be moving because you and your all-important senses can't feel it.Maybe....maybe you feel the Earth revolves around a particular point that just happens to coincide with your physical location?Most kids grow out of that by the time they're three, out of diapers and mommy and daddy don't always buy them sweets.

you won't understand it because SO's "model" is a gibbering, cretinous lump of wack.The reason, after 32 pages, that nobody understand his model yet still knows it is wrong is because it is so abhorrently amorphously cretinously ridiculously inconsistent from moment to moment.first *everything* rotates around the earth. Then mars is orbiting the sun. then mars is "following" the sun. then there's a delay. then everything is spinning, but not the earth, then...god knows what.pink unicorns probably.I tol'em. buggerit, millenium hand and shrimp I tol'em we can't stay here, this is BAT COUNTRY!

oh, discworld you got perfectly - but who do the last eight words belong to?

shame on you! this guy!plus you should get "fear and loathing in las vegas" - I'm told the book is better but the movie is crazy.Edited by Admin, : Fix url.

why, SO, that's the first thing you've said I agree with!