quote:
dont take me out of context. My comment above was to your claim that english and hebrew grammar work the same way.
I said 'it doesnt work the same way'
Maybe you need to take a creative writing class to understand figurative language. Did you really not understand what Rrhain was saying concerning English and Hebrew grammar? In any language there are indicators that tell the reader to use a different meaning of a word. There are indicators that tell the reader whether the standard meaning of the word is used or a more figurative meaning is used, etc.
Rrhain writes:
Hebrew works the same way. "Yom" can be used to indicate indefinite periods of time, but only if it is phrased in a specific way. Genesis 2:17 does not use any phrasing to indicate an indefinite period of time but instead uses phrasing specifically indicating a literal, 24-hour day. When Adam was told that he would die on the day he ate from the tree of knowledge, it means before the sun sets.
Message 200
I don't see how you can understand anything in the Bible if you have difficulty discerning literal or figurative usages. Doctrine doesn't determine how a word should be understood.
quote:
In the NT he is identified as the 'devil' AND 'satan' and they are the same thing. Devil means 'opposer' and Satan means 'resister. And im sorry to contradict you here, but those who first spoke about the devil WERE jews.
No they don't mean the same thing.
Satan means adversary. As the word is used in the book of Job, it is personified and the character has the position in the divine court of prosecutor. The vision in Zechariah has the Satan character in the same job. A prosecutor does oppose the other side.
Devil
(diabolos) means prone to slander, slanderous, accusing falsely.
An adversary isn't automatically a slanderer.
In the OT the word translated as devil
(shed) means demon, not adversary.
Since neither the word satan or devil are used in Genesis 3:1, this issue is off topic and useless to the discussion.
Serpent is the word used. Stick to what is written. The serpent is associated with
wisdom in that verse.
The Hebrew word
arum isn't necessarily a negative term.
I think using the word "subtle" is a poor choice today. That doesn't really tell me anything good or bad. The meanings crafty, shrewd, prudent, and sensible aren't necessarily negative. They all refer to wisdom.
That makes Eve's choice even harder since the snake was portrayed as wise. There wasn't a reason for Eve to mistrust the snake. Remember, the snake did tell the truth.
ABE: One issue you fail to address in Hebrew or English are the indicators. You can babble on about how Hebrew is different, etc. etc., etc.; but the bottom line is show us the indicators. You haven't addressed that issue.
What indicators within the verses, whether Hebrew or English, indicate that yom or nachash are to be understood figuratively and not the standard meaning of the words?
We have the same expression in Exodus 10:28, which was written by the JE writter as is Genesis 2:17.
And Pharaoh said unto him Get thee from me take heed to thyself see my face no more for
in that day thou seest my face thou shalt die
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil thou shalt not eat of it for
in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die
Now if we read the rest of Exodus we see that Moses did see Pharaoh's face again. Pharaoh's threat implied that if he saw Moses again he would kill him, not that Moses would just drop dead or eventually die of old age. I've made this comment before concerning muth. The implication from Pharaoh's threat and God's threat is that the person would be killed. Pharaoh chose not to kill Moses, just as God chose not to kill Adam and Eve.
The implication in both cases is that death would be relatively quick and not natural. IMO, in both cases it was a scare tactic since neither of them carried out their threat.
Oddly enough we still make the same type of threats today.
Edited by purpledawn, : ABE
Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion