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Author Topic:   Can You define God?
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 271 of 318 (676021)
10-18-2012 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by Phat
10-18-2012 11:46 AM


Re: What Is GOD?
How do you know BLOP alone IS hubuluteral?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Phat, posted 10-18-2012 11:46 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by Phat, posted 10-18-2012 11:55 AM Straggler has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10240
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 272 of 318 (676022)
10-18-2012 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Straggler
10-18-2012 11:50 AM


Re: BLOP is hubbuluteral
Put what out there? A combination of letters that literally has no conceptual definition or meaning? Something which is literally meaningless.

thus, I could say that X, if X exists is meaningful.

For you, X="what" or X=something. Thats what you essentially just said.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2012 11:50 AM Straggler has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10240
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 273 of 318 (676023)
10-18-2012 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by Straggler
10-18-2012 11:51 AM


Re: What Is GOD?
How do you know BLOP alone IS hubuluteral?

Good question.

Lets break your sentence down further. First, we will remove the words without definition. Thus we are left with:

How do you know alone IS?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2012 11:51 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2012 12:20 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29798
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 274 of 318 (676024)
10-18-2012 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by Straggler
10-18-2012 11:41 AM


Re: What Is GOD?
Not exactly.

If you can present some evidence of anything that really is supernatural then we can test your assertion to see if it holds up to examination.

What I have said is "GOD, if GOD exists, will be supernatural."


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2012 11:41 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2012 12:19 PM jar has responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 275 of 318 (676025)
10-18-2012 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by jar
10-18-2012 11:59 AM


Re: What Is GOD?
Either things need to be tested to qualify as supernatural. Or they can simply be defined as being supernatural.

We know that Voldermort, Thor, demons etc. etc. are supernatural because we have defined them as being 'unexplainable by natural law'. We have in effect defined them as being "magical".

Your insistence that GOD (and GOD alone) qualifies as supernatural is just another example of your self-serving definitions. It is a way of special pleading the object of your own belief as supernatural by definition, whilst insisting that everything else needs to be tested.

jar writes:

If you can present some evidence of anything that really is supernatural then we can test your assertion to see if it holds up to examination.

Have you tested GOD?

jar writes:

What I have said is "GOD, if GOD exists, will be supernatural."

And I have asked how you know this? Are you just asserting your irrational beliefs as facts again?

Please stop doing that.....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by jar, posted 10-18-2012 11:59 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by jar, posted 10-18-2012 12:32 PM Straggler has responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 276 of 318 (676026)
10-18-2012 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Phat
10-18-2012 11:55 AM


Re: What Is GOD?
I'm ignostic towards that absurdly, incoherent and idiotic question.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Phat, posted 10-18-2012 11:55 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Phat, posted 10-18-2012 12:31 PM Straggler has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10240
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 277 of 318 (676029)
10-18-2012 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by Straggler
10-18-2012 12:20 PM


Re: What Is GOD?
Its not absurd at all. YOU are the one who proposed it, after all.

How do you know that alone(All One) is?

So all we need do is define alone. Then we need to ask how we know that it is.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2012 12:20 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2012 2:51 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29798
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 278 of 318 (676030)
10-18-2012 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by Straggler
10-18-2012 12:19 PM


Re: What Is GOD?
I have not tested GOD.

I see no way to test the supernatural.

Yes people can define most anything as supernatural and as I continue to point out, they have.

The fact that people call Voldemort supernatural has nothing to do with whether Voldemort is supernatural.

I do not assert my irrational beliefs as fact.

I will continue though to post about my beliefs.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2012 12:19 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2012 3:34 PM jar has responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 279 of 318 (676042)
10-18-2012 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Phat
10-18-2012 12:31 PM


Re: What Is GOD?
Phat writes:

Its not absurd at all. YOU are the one who proposed it, after all.

As an example of absurdity. Here is the question again. Is BLOP hubuluteral?

BLOP and hubuluteral are terms that have no definition or attributes. They are literally meaningless. So how would you answer that question?

Phat writes:

How do you know that alone(All One) is?

I have no idea what you are talking about. The question is literally gibberish.

Phat writes:

So all we need do is define alone.

Look up alone in a dictionary.

Phat writes:

Then we need to ask how we know that it is

What is what?

We have descended into absurdity again.....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Phat, posted 10-18-2012 12:31 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 280 of 318 (676045)
10-18-2012 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by jar
10-18-2012 12:32 PM


Re: What Is GOD?
jar writes:

I have not tested GOD.

Then you are special pleading the object of your own belief.

jar writes:

I do not assert my irrational beliefs as fact.

You relentlessly cite your definitions as if they were something more than the expression of your personal beliefs.

jar writes:

Yes people can define most anything as supernatural and as I continue to point out, they have.

Your entire argument is founded on the object of your belief (and nothing else) being classed as supernatural. There is no difference between you and them.

jar writes:

GOD, if GOD exists will be supernatural.

Straggler writes:

How do you know this?

jar writes:

And I've answered that before but I'm willing to try again. I do not KNOW that, I believe that.

Your definitions and your beliefs are but one miserable whole.

jar writes:

I will continue though to post about my beliefs.

You are of course welcome to do that.

But will you stop putting forward your definitions as if they were something more than the expression of your irrational beliefs?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by jar, posted 10-18-2012 12:32 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by jar, posted 10-18-2012 3:48 PM Straggler has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29798
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 281 of 318 (676048)
10-18-2012 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by Straggler
10-18-2012 3:34 PM


Re: What Is GOD?
Your entire argument is founded on the object of your belief (and nothing else) being classed as supernatural.

Utter bullshit.

I have said I am open to learning about something that really is supernatural, all you need to do is present a way to test to determine something really is supernatural.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2012 3:34 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2012 3:52 PM jar has responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 282 of 318 (676050)
10-18-2012 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by jar
10-18-2012 3:48 PM


Re: What Is GOD?
jar writes:

I have said I am open to learning about something that really is supernatural, all you need to do is present a way to test to determine something really is supernatural.

The same test you apply to GOD.......


This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by jar, posted 10-18-2012 3:48 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by jar, posted 10-18-2012 3:58 PM Straggler has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29798
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 283 of 318 (676051)
10-18-2012 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Straggler
10-18-2012 3:52 PM


Re: What Is GOD?
And again, as I have said, I have not tested and see no way to test GOD as long as I am a human living in this natural world.

If you know a way to test something supernatural I am open to learning your method and examining it.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2012 3:52 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Straggler, posted 10-20-2012 9:36 AM jar has responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 284 of 318 (676178)
10-20-2012 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 283 by jar
10-18-2012 3:58 PM


Re: What Is GOD?
You believe that GOD, and GOD alone, is genuinely supernatural.

Other people believe that other entities are genuinely supernatural.

The only test those who believe in the supernatural, including you, ever seem to apply is the "Do I believe it's supernatural" test.

And I don't think highly personalised beliefs are a sensible basis for defining anything if the aim of a definition is common usage of terminology for the purposes of effective communication.

Straggler writes:

Can you give me an example of a god or a God that isn't supernatural or doesn't have supernatural abilities?

jar writes:

All of the Gods or gods.

jar writes:

GOD, if GOD exists will be supernatural.

Sraggler writes:

How do you know this?

jar writes:

I do not KNOW that, I believe that.

It's all just your personal belief. Which isn't a sensible basis for defining anything.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by jar, posted 10-18-2012 3:58 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by jar, posted 10-20-2012 10:00 AM Straggler has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29798
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 285 of 318 (676181)
10-20-2012 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by Straggler
10-20-2012 9:36 AM


Re: What Is GOD?
You believe that GOD, and GOD alone, is genuinely supernatural.

No, once again that is not what I believe.

I will try once again to explain my position to you.

I agree that many people believe many things are supernatural, but I also see no way while I am simply a human living in this natural world to actually determine if something really is supernatural.

A GOD, if a GOD exists, would really be supernatural.

Other things might also really be supernatural.

We can test many asserted supernatural things and find out they are NOT supernatural.

Voldemort is a character in a fiction series, so we know that Voldemort is not really supernatural.

Many folk thought thunder and lightning supernatural but we now know they are not, they are just natural.

As a human though when I test things I either place them in a category of "I know they are natural" or "unknown".

I do not know of anything where I can say "That is really supernatural".

So far every God(s) or god(s) examined are creations of the human imagination.

The reason I have a high degree of confidence in that statement is that (as pointed out above) I see no way to even describe what true supernatural is. I can point out things it isn't (it is not natural), but I can't say what it really is.

All my experience, all the tools at my disposal, are natural. They are designed to detect natural. They follow natural rules and laws.

I do believe GOD exists.

But I cannot say anything about what GOD is. God, if GOD exists, really would be supernatural but since I have no idea what "supernatural" really is or any way to definitely test something that was supernatural or even define what supernatural really is, there is little I can say beyond stating my beliefs.

However, as a human, I also label things. As a theist, I worship a God, in my case the Christian God. I understand that is simply a label, not the object itself; it is a placeholder, a caricature, a map, a guide, a symbol.

The other God(s) or god(s) are also placeholders, symbols, caricatures, guides, maps, labels created to allow communication, discussion, guidance, direction, introspection, contemplation.

I also understand that I might be wrong and GOD might not exist, that there might really be nothing that is supernatural.

It really is that simple.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Straggler, posted 10-20-2012 9:36 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by Straggler, posted 10-20-2012 10:13 AM jar has responded

  
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